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Thread: 2018 Offseason And Targets

  1. #8341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I was adding to your point, not disagreeing with you.

    I should have written "I would also add there more strategy involved...."
    Makes sense. I’m actually looking forward to seeing how things progress with these and the possible increase in roster size to 26 in 2020. Also, mentioned was a max of 28 in September.

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    TODAY: The Marlins will demand top pitching prospect Sixto Sanchez in any deal with the Phils, per MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro.

    Frisaro notes that the Miami organization would like to wrap up a deal with one of the remaining suitors before the club holds its annual FanFest event this Saturday.
    Mark Bowman's reports carry a lot of gravity

  3. #8343
    NL Rookie of the Year dak's Avatar
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    I think we're all anxious for this to be over, so wanted to pass along the good news . . . Fish have very good reason to wrap this up before Saturday.

    MIAMI -- Whether the Marlins trade J.T. Realmuto to the Phillies or not may come down to if pitching prospect Sixto Sanchez is part of the deal.

    A source told MLB.com on Wednesday that Sanchez is viewed as a "must" to be included in a trade package for Realmuto.

    Earlier this week, the Phillies re-engaged with Miami regarding Realmuto. Miami, per sources, also is in talks with the Reds, Padres, Dodgers, Braves and Rays.

    The Marlins are pushing to complete a trade before their pitchers and catchers begin workouts on Feb. 13 at the Roger Dean Chevrolet Stadium complex in Jupiter, Fla. But the team also is willing to wait if it is not pleased with the overall package.

    Ideally, Miami would like something done before Marlins FanFest, which is on Saturday at Marlins Park. All players on the 40-man roster are required to attend FanFest, but it would be uncomfortable to have Realmuto at the ballpark if he is on the verge of being traded.
    https://www.mlb.com/news/marlins-wan...to/c-303603116

  4. #8344
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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanforlife88 View Post
    TODAY: The Marlins will demand top pitching prospect Sixto Sanchez in any deal with the Phils, per MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro.

    Frisaro notes that the Miami organization would like to wrap up a deal with one of the remaining suitors before the club holds its annual FanFest event this Saturday.
    Hahaha. Please Faillies. Please do this
    Coppy

  5. #8345
    Spring Training Invitee tululush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanMatt View Post
    Hahaha. Please Faillies. Please do this
    Who in our organization is the equivalent to Sixto?

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    Waiting for Free Agency striker42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Right...

    By your logic they should just cut the roster size down to 9 and force every single player to play every single position for at least 1 whole inning. I'm so sick of guys who can only play SS, or only play C, or only pitch, and still be able to win the MVP. All players should have equal amounts of all 5 tools, not just the tools needed for a particular position on the field.

    I want to see games where every player is competent at every single position and every single aspect of the game. I want to see the best "baseball players", not the best SS, CF, C, pitcher, etc.

    See how stupid and pointless logical fallacies are in debate? It's easy to knock down the absurd straw man you just created, and adds nothing to the debate logically.
    There's a fine line between the rhetorical device of a reductio ad absurdum and the straw man fallacy. This is especially true when what you're debating ultimately comes down to a matter of personal taste and so defies logic.

    And I agree logical fallacies have not place in debate. For example, the use of the ad hominem seriously detracts from arguments and lowers the quality of debates on boards like this. I'm certain you would agree that the use of fallacies such as the ad hominem have no place here.

  7. #8347
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4maddux_cy's View Post
    Plus if the three batter minimum rule gets implemented then strategy would be increased overall. I was a long opponent of the DH in the NL but I’ve come around. I still hate the no pitch intentional walk. Lol
    What Enscheff left out is that PH strategy is way more important without a DH. Sending up a PH ain't strategy, but figuring out which PH is pretty damn important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    I don't like the DH cause it isn't real baseball. This is the MLB, not Dizzy Dean. Players should have to actually play a position and pitchers should have to hit. I don't care if you don't like watching pitchers hit or Adam Dunn types play defense. I do enjoy it. And plenty of people agree with me.

    Also, implenting the DH means we can't drill Urena in the ear hole for the punk ass **** he pulled on Acuna.
    Lesser thought about impact of the DH.

  9. #8349
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    Quote Originally Posted by tululush View Post
    Who in our organization is the equivalent to Sixto?
    Soroka is actually ranked ahead of Sixto on some lists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tululush View Post
    Who in our organization is the equivalent to Sixto?
    Sixto:
    Scouting grades: Fastball: 75 | Curve: 55 | Changeup: 55 | Control: 60 | Overall: 55
    Sanchez may have been an under-the-radar signing back in 2015 when the Phillies nabbed him for just $35,000. But starting with his United States debut in '16, when he won the Gulf Coast League ERA crown, he's been raising his prospect value exponentially. The only thing that's slowed him down has been the injury bug, with elbow inflammation shutting him down in early June in 2018, and then a sore collarbone keeping him from heading to the Arizona Fall League.

    When healthy, Sanchez has perhaps the best combination of electric stuff and command of any pitcher in the Minor Leagues. He might appear undersized at six-feet tall, but he's deceptively strong, with an athletic and repeatable delivery. Sanchez throws both a two- and four-seam fastball, the former thrown with a lot of sink to get ground-ball outs and the latter cranked up to triple digits at times. Not only can Sanchez maintain velocity deep into starts, the fastball plays up because of movement and his plus command of the pitch. He can add and subtract from his breaking ball, and seeing it as a future plus strikeout pitch isn't out of the question. He shows good feel for his changeup as well, giving him the chance to have at least three above-average offerings.

    Sanchez's workload has been limited, partially because of understandable caution and partially because of injury. A healthy and complete 2019 should help get him ready for an eventual career at or near the top of a big league rotation.

    Soroka:
    Scouting Grades: Fastball: 60 | Slider: 55 | Changeup: 55 | Control: 60 | Overall: 55

    Taken out of the high school ranks of Calgary in the first round of the 2015 Draft, Soroka used his combination of size, stuff and uncanny command to get to the big leagues less than three years after being drafted. He looked like he was cementing his place in the Braves rotation when he went down in June with a shoulder issue. While he didn't return to competitive action, he was throwing at full strength in the fall and will be ready to go full-throttle in 2019.

    Soroka typically throws his heavy sinking fastball in the 93-94 mph range. Though he can reach back for more, he's more than happy to pitch to contact early in counts and get groundball outs. He can alter how he throws his breaking ball, making it look like a sharp slider or more of a power curve when he wants to. His changeup has improved as well and gives him three at least above-average pitches, all of which he uses to fill the strike zone consistently.

    Still only 21 years old, Soroka is just about ready to jump off of prospect lists. Assuming health, he should have every chance to make a big impact on the Braves rotation in 2019. Seeing him plant himself as the No. 3 on that talented staff is close to becoming a reality.

    #24 Soroka
    #27 Sixto Sanchez
    #30 Kyle Wright
    #32 Ian Anderson
    Last edited by bravesfanforlife88; 02-06-2019 at 03:19 PM.
    Mark Bowman's reports carry a lot of gravity

  11. #8351
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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanforlife88 View Post
    TODAY: The Marlins will demand top pitching prospect Sixto Sanchez in any deal with the Phils, per MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro.

    Frisaro notes that the Miami organization would like to wrap up a deal with one of the remaining suitors before the club holds its annual FanFest event this Saturday.
    This would be a huge win for the Marlins

    With Soroka’s injury concerns I don’t think the Braves have a pitching prospect as valuable as Sixto, and certainly not one that is clearly more valuable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    This would be a huge win for the Marlins

    With Soroka’s injury concerns I don’t think the Braves have a pitching prospect as valuable as Sixto, and certainly not one that is clearly more valuable.
    Sixto has a ton of upside as well. But he has a lot of injury concern.
    Mark Bowman's reports carry a lot of gravity

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyTrain View Post
    What Enscheff left out is that PH strategy is way more important without a DH. Sending up a PH ain't strategy, but figuring out which PH is pretty damn important.
    Yes, picking the best hitter on the bench with a platoon advantage is horribly complicated. I can see why a salesman would confuse it for “strategy”.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanforlife88 View Post
    Sixto has a ton of upside as well. But he has a lot of injury concern.
    Soroka injured his shoulder. That’s the absolute worst case injury for a pitcher short of losing an appendage or death.

    Also, I said “certainly not one that is clearly more valuable“, which is relevant because the Braves would have to beat the Phils offer.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 02-06-2019 at 03:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Soroka injured his shoulder. That’s the absolute worst case injury for a pitcher short of losing an appendage or death.
    Can be, no doubt. However, it did not require surgery and word was that he was good to go in the playoffs. Sixto had elbow inflammation and a sore collarbone....how do you get a sore collarbone? Could be a sign that he gets a lot of nagging injuries.
    Mark Bowman's reports carry a lot of gravity

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanforlife88 View Post
    Can be, no doubt. However, it did not require surgery and word was that he was good to go in the playoffs. Sixto had elbow inflammation and a sore collarbone....how do you get a sore collarbone? Could be a sign that he gets a lot of nagging injuries.
    Everyone is going to minimize whatever injury they need to fit their narrative.

    Fact of the matter is Soroka hit the DL twice for the same shoulder issue. Shoulder issues end careers, while elbow issues delay them for 12-18 months.

    All pitchers are injury concerns, but a guy with 2 DL stints for his shoulder is riskier than a guy with elbow inflammation. Soroka went from being the safest pitching prospect in the organization to just another question mark.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 02-06-2019 at 03:44 PM.

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    So you view Sixto as easier to project than Soroka?
    Mark Bowman's reports carry a lot of gravity

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Everyone is going to minimize whatever injury they need to fit their narrative.

    Fact of the matter is Soroka hit the DL twice for the same shoulder issue. Shoulder issues end careers, while elbow issues delay them for 12-18 months.

    All pitchers are injury concerns, but a guy with 2 DL stints for his shoulder is riskier than a guy with elbow inflammation. Soroka went from being the safest pitching prospect in the organization to just another question mark.
    So with both having injury concerns if I were the Marlins I wouldn’t move him for either one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanforlife88 View Post
    So you view Sixto as easier to project than Soroka?
    I don't think I stated that anywhere, ever. Risk (likelihood of injury or flaming out) and volatility (range of potential outcomes) are not the same.

    All pitchers have the risk of being a 0. Some pitchers are more risky that others, mostly due to injury.

    Some pitchers are more volatile than others, usually manifested in having a higher reasonably likely ceiling.

    A pitcher with more injury risk (recurring shoulder issues) and less total upside (a likely #3) is, by definition, less valuable than a guy with less injury risk (elbow/collarbone issues) and a higher upside (possible TOR). It's pretty basic ROI analysis.
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  20. #8360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Everyone is going to minimize whatever injury they need to fit their narrative.

    Fact of the matter is Soroka hit the DL twice for the same shoulder issue. Shoulder issues end careers, while elbow issues delay them for 12-18 months.

    All pitchers are injury concerns, but a guy with 2 DL stints for his shoulder is riskier than a guy with elbow inflammation. Soroka went from being the safest pitching prospect in the organization to just another question mark.
    Well, I don't really understand the mechanics of shoulder injuries, but the words that seem to go along with career threatening shoulder injuries (rotator cuff, labrum) do not seem to be associated with Soroka at this point.

    The baseball america article referenced muscular issues, but no structural damage. Cartilage and ligaments are harder to repair than muscle, but I would guess that a muscular imbalance could lead to structural damage later. I have no idea what the regimen of strengthening other muscles to obtain a better advance would add to that prognosis but that seems to be what he's been working on.

    I think downplaying Sixto's injury history is questionable. He's super young, throwing super hard, and he's had almost immediate injury trouble in his career.

    But they very well may be similar values. Sixto seems to have better stuff and I've never been huge on Soroka.

    I don't think the Phillies are much more likely to part with a 60 guy for Realmuto than anyone else though.

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