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Thread: 2018 Offseason And Targets

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    Some of you are ridiculous. We don't overpay for a position we don't even need and the sky is falling and suddenly we're the Pirates...

    It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see us finish with a higher WAR at 3B, cOF, and catcher than 2018. And, I'd say it's pretty likely we still have at least 1 more big addition we're working on, be it SP or cOF or closer.
    I can't speak for everyone, but for me it's not the fact we didn't get JTR. It's the fact we haven't done anything outside of Donaldson. I naively thought that was the beginning of our offseason and not our whole offseason.

    I think AA is more scared of having a prospec excel somewhere else than being methodical at this point. I hope like hell I'm wrong and he pulls something off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanforlife88 View Post
    On the other side, those not upset, would they be upset if we finish 4th in the division, get a mediocre draft selection, and burn another year of all of our players? I'm sorry, but i'm sick and tired of the "wait until next year" philosophy.....the Braves were once the class of baseball....now we are damn cheapskates...

    The Braves didn't "wait until next year."

    they signed the best free agent who has signed so far.

    It's beyond the Braves control what the rest of the division does. That's baseball. So they go into the season with a lot of different quality teams in the division. That would have been the case with Realmuto just as much as it is without him.

    I think it is unfortunate that seemingly the whole division is going hard after the first years of the Braves window, but not much you can do about it.

    I want them to make moves that are perfect fits rather than overpay for imperfect fits.

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    Another thing to consider about the offseason. It’s not over! Look how many players are still available. Trades can be made. So much doom and gloom around here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    I think this does set up a situation where Grandal and Ceveli are going to be logical targets next off-season. We are in a position to go high AAV to keep down length of contract. That's what I would do with those two.

    Cervelli could easily end up on this year's team.

    there are a lot of teams with players they will maybe want to move once they realize they are not contenders.

    The Dodgers supposedly having more than casual conversation on Sterling Marte makes me wonder if the Pirates are really committed to this season. Seems pretty clear they are not a favorite for the playoffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Earlier this off-season both the Braves and Phillies engaged on Realmuto, but were left with the impression that the Marlins preferred not to trade him within the division. Kind of stupid but that's seems to have been the case.

    The Marlins and Phillies re-engaged only after the Marlins had extensive conversations with teams outside the division, including the Padres, Dodgers and Reds.

    They came back to the Phillies only after not being fully satisfied with what the other teams offered. Should AA have matched what the Phillies offered. Don't think so. Should he have tried harder earlier in the off-season. Maybe but it seems to me the ask within the division was higher than what teams like the Padres, Dodgers, and Reds were offering. One way or another it doesn't seem that Realmuto was available to us short of a price that was as significant overpay.
    Seems like the ask was high for everyone and the Marlins waited to see who would bite later in the process.

    Wasn't Sixto and Alfaro basically what was rumored as their ask before? I feel like it was.

    The Marlins simply exercised patience rather than making a move just because everyone was bored and tired of waiting for them to make a move. And were evidently rewarded with the type of return they envisioned from the beginning rather than what other clubs envisioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    The Braves didn't "wait until next year."

    they signed the best free agent who has signed so far.

    It's beyond the Braves control what the rest of the division does. That's baseball. So they go into the season with a lot of different quality teams in the division. That would have been the case with Realmuto just as much as it is without him.

    I think it is unfortunate that seemingly the whole division is going hard after the first years of the Braves window, but not much you can do about it.

    I want them to make moves that are perfect fits rather than overpay for imperfect fits.
    So the 2nd best offensive catcher in MLB who is elite at framing to handle a young pitching staff, and signed for a bargain 1 year deal isn't a perfect fit?

    Meanwhile, a recently injured 3B on the young side of 30 for 20%+ of the payroll when Camargo and Riley are already in house is a perfect fit?

    I suppose we have reached the point in the off season where the Braves apologists are out in full swing trying to defend a decidedly below average off season.
    Gausman had a bad walk ratio for us -CrazyTrain 11/20/2018
    BB/9 with Braves: 2.72

    Fried, Newk and a couple other guys for Bumgarner and give him a pay day for 6ish years -CrazyTrain 10/15/18

    Matt Adams to the Tampa Bay Rays for Jake Odorizzi makes too much sense not to happen -clvclv 10/17/17
    Matt Adams non-tendered by Braves 12/2/17

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanforlife88 View Post
    On the other side, those not upset, would they be upset if we finish 4th in the division, get a mediocre draft selection, and burn another year of all of our players? I'm sorry, but i'm sick and tired of the "wait until next year" philosophy.....the Braves were once the class of baseball....now we are damn cheapskates...
    I seriously doubt the Braves finish 4th in the division but it is baseball and anything can happen. The Braves are better now than they were a year ago due to player growth and additions. I don't think that's 'waiting until next year'. And I don't think going all in because you were lucky a year ago is the smart play either.

    The Braves are a mid market team and need to act like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    I can't speak for everyone, but for me it's not the fact we didn't get JTR. It's the fact we haven't done anything outside of Donaldson. I naively thought that was the beginning of our offseason and not our whole offseason.

    I think AA is more scared of having a prospec excel somewhere else than being methodical at this point. I hope like hell I'm wrong and he pulls something off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    The Braves didn't "wait until next year."

    they signed the best free agent who has signed so far.

    It's beyond the Braves control what the rest of the division does. That's baseball. So they go into the season with a lot of different quality teams in the division. That would have been the case with Realmuto just as much as it is without him.

    I think it is unfortunate that seemingly the whole division is going hard after the first years of the Braves window, but not much you can do about it.

    I want them to make moves that are perfect fits rather than overpay for imperfect fits.
    Exactly!

    In our "first year of the window", the Phillies have already added 10.2 WAR to a team that gave us a run for our money most of the season. Plus they are probably going to add Machado or Harper, and could not be done there. The Nationals have added 8.6 WAR and still stand to possibly add...The Mets have added 10 WAR this offseason and are probably done...

    We have added a total of 5.8 WAR between Donaldson, McCann, and Neck....Neck is not an addition, he is brought back from last years team, so subtract his 0.9 WAR projection...McCann is projected at 0.8 WAR, which is only .3 WAR behind Suzuki so call that a wash, slight down grade....so we really have only added Donaldsons projected 4.1 WAR....

    All 3 of the other NL east teams have kicked our ass this offseason and it really isn't even close.
    " The 2018 Braves give fans reason to believe again." - Bowman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    The Braves didn't "wait until next year."

    they signed the best free agent who has signed so far.

    It's beyond the Braves control what the rest of the division does. That's baseball. So they go into the season with a lot of different quality teams in the division. That would have been the case with Realmuto just as much as it is without him.

    I think it is unfortunate that seemingly the whole division is going hard after the first years of the Braves window, but not much you can do about it.

    I want them to make moves that are perfect fits rather than overpay for imperfect fits.
    Would you consider paying a guy $23 mil for a year to take the place of one of our most productive players and log jam a position for our best positional prospect an overpay for an imperfect fit while completely ignoring a huge hole in the OF and starting rotation?

    To me, JTR was always a luxury, but became more of a necessity after our other moves occurred. I'm not mad we didn't get him, I'm mad about the other stuff that we did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    I wonder if those upset right now would still be upset if the Braves didn't over perform (with the Nats under performing) and win the division last year?
    Probably no less upset than they'll be when Donaldson, Markakis, and Mac underperform and they finish 4th this year.

    Actually, no - they'll have no reason to be upset since the projections said there's no chance of that happening and that that only ever happens to our competition.
    Waters is intersting too. Would prefer a guy that projects to more power though. (2017 Draft Thread)

    If they don't make additions they can expect the same 3-5 win improvement they saw last year. That makes the Braves a 75-78 win team. (What's the best we could hope for in 2018?)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Well, after we get over the fact that AA was used as a pawn by Jeter to get a nice return for JTR, the Braves can still make a 1-2 moves.

    I have them sitting right at $114M with a hole on the bench and/or BP...perhaps in the rotation, but unlikely.

    Expect to see them grab an arm like Romo, Madson or Norris fairly soon.

    Trade for Frazier? Sign Marwin? Gio to fortify the rotation?

    There are certainly still some lower profile additions to be made.
    Who cares if he was 'used as a pawn'? He made an offer, didn't budge on it, and the Marlins sought other offers and eventually got one better. That's how negotiations work. And I'm glad it was the Phillies who paid the price and not us.
    "Acuna is getting lucky, just like CJ did when he batted .321 and won a batting title. He is unlikely to get lucky at the MLB level over an extended period of time. He will settle in around .300-.320 just like everyone else, and when he does, he won't be within shouting distance of the 1.000 OPS he is posting in AAA...more like low .700s in 2018." -Enscheff 8/25/17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    So the 2nd best offensive catcher in MLB who is elite at framing to handle a young pitching staff, and signed for a bargain 1 year deal isn't a perfect fit?

    Meanwhile, a recently injured 3B on the young side of 30 for 20%+ of the payroll when Camargo and Riley are already in house is a perfect fit?

    I suppose we have reached the point in the off season where the Braves apologists are out in full swing trying to defend a decidedly below average off season.

    I'm not here to condemn your love of Yasmani Grandal. But I would suggest to you that the Braves don't share it.

    They love Josh Donaldson.

    The rest of it is just you being argumentative. You don't think Camargo is a starting caliber MLB player and you are the low man on Riley. What's more you have on several occasion stated that the Braves do not either. So that's not in your view a perfect in-house fit. Come on now.

    .....

    I don't know exactly how the Braves finish this offseason. I don't know what they will do during the season. I consider those to be elements of their 2019 strategy.

    I would have liked them to do more, but doing very little more than they have done is a fairly respectable strategy as the thoughtful nsacpi has promoted quite competently this offseason. Let's see what their patience lands them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    Who cares if he was 'used as a pawn'? He made an offer, didn't budge on it, and the Marlins sought other offers and eventually got one better. That's how negotiations work. And I'm glad it was the Phillies who paid the price and not us.
    Ya, I wouldn't say he was used, he just was a part of the process.

    I do think we'll sign a reliever and starter from the bargain bin. My guess is Gio and Norris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    I'm not here to condemn your love of Yasmani Grandal. But I would suggest to you that the Braves don't share it.

    They love Josh Donaldson.

    The rest of it is just you being argumentative. You don't think Camargo is a starting caliber MLB player and you are the low man on Riley. What's more you have on several occasion stated that the Braves do not either. So that's not in your view a perfect in-house fit. Come on now.

    .....

    I don't know exactly how the Braves finish this offseason. I don't know what they will do during the season. I consider those to be elements of their 2019 strategy.

    I would have liked them to do more, but doing very little more than they have done is a fairly respectable strategy as the thoughtful nsacpi has promoted quite competently this offseason. Let's see what their patience lands them.
    I do think the verdict on this offseason will turn somewhat on whether one of Camargo or Riley can be an adequate outfielder. It will be possibly the most interesting question this spring training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    Probably no less upset than they'll be when Donaldson, Markakis, and Mac underperform and they finish 4th this year.

    Actually, no - they'll have no reason to be upset since the projections said there's no chance of that happening and that that only ever happens to our competition.

    We are all perfectly capable of believing that Braves might underperform. At the end of the day, you can't control who gets hurt or who has a bad year. You can do your best to contain the risk, but your damn Marwin Gonzalez scenarios are no more likely to pan out just because they fit your own pleasure spot than other things. I mean really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    Probably no less upset than they'll be when Donaldson, Markakis, and Mac underperform and they finish 4th this year.

    Actually, no - they'll have no reason to be upset since the projections said there's no chance of that happening and that that only ever happens to our competition.
    Anything is possible of course. But again the Braves are better today than they were a year ago. Hopefully there is an overall plan. Should be a fun season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    I'm not here to condemn your love of Yasmani Grandal. But I would suggest to you that the Braves don't share it.

    They love Josh Donaldson.

    The rest of it is just you being argumentative. You don't think Camargo is a starting caliber MLB player and you are the low man on Riley. What's more you have on several occasion stated that the Braves do not either. So that's not in your view a perfect in-house fit. Come on now.

    .....

    I don't know exactly how the Braves finish this offseason. I don't know what they will do during the season. I consider those to be elements of their 2019 strategy.

    I would have liked them to do more, but doing very little more than they have done is a fairly respectable strategy as the thoughtful nsacpi has promoted quite competently this offseason. Let's see what their patience lands them.

    As the arguably high man on Riley, I also consider this as a "decidedly below average off season" without Grandal even entering the conversation. AA had the means to make this team much better and he flopped.
    Waters is intersting too. Would prefer a guy that projects to more power though. (2017 Draft Thread)

    If they don't make additions they can expect the same 3-5 win improvement they saw last year. That makes the Braves a 75-78 win team. (What's the best we could hope for in 2018?)


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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    I do think the verdict on this offseason will turn somewhat on whether one of Camargo or Riley can be an adequate outfielder. It will be possibly the most interesting question this spring training.
    Why? Won't Duvall be the back up after Nick, Ender and Acuna all put in 150 games next year?

    Most interesting question of spring training will be "who fills out the rotation after Folty". Followed directly by "how healthy is Josh Donaldson".

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    The OF is projected to produce ~7 WAR total.

    That is unacceptable for a contending team with resources to burn at the beginning of the off season who already had a huge head start with the NL ROY playing in the OF for free, no matter how folks insist on spinning it.

    Ending up with Markakis as an everyday cOF was a failure, period.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 02-08-2019 at 01:10 PM.
    Gausman had a bad walk ratio for us -CrazyTrain 11/20/2018
    BB/9 with Braves: 2.72

    Fried, Newk and a couple other guys for Bumgarner and give him a pay day for 6ish years -CrazyTrain 10/15/18

    Matt Adams to the Tampa Bay Rays for Jake Odorizzi makes too much sense not to happen -clvclv 10/17/17
    Matt Adams non-tendered by Braves 12/2/17

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Anything is possible of course. But again the Braves are better today than they were a year ago. Hopefully there is an overall plan. Should be a fun season.
    Duh, but I'm not sure what the offseason moves did to make that happen. Real difference between this time last year and now is that Acuna is an elite player, Albies is an All Star and Folty proved he can lead a rotation.

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