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Thread: 2018 Offseason And Targets

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    Quote Originally Posted by tululush View Post
    Having 2/3 of the O'Ventebrel monster in the pen would be a sight for sore eyes
    ...O'day

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    If we could get Kimbrel on a 1 year deal, I'd be fine with it I suppose. But I still have my doubts that he'd be willing to take an offer like that.

    On another note, it looks like we aren't going to be trying Riley out in the OF until later in Spring Training. That is a little disappointing to me. I'd like to see him get as many reps as possible out there. It'd be great if he could be called up to provide us a quality bench bat that had IF/OF power corner versatility. I could see him eventually serving the role that Duvall was supposed to serve for us, with the added benefit of being able to play 3rd sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanieAntics View Post
    If we could get Kimbrel on a 1 year deal, I'd be fine with it I suppose. But I still have my doubts that he'd be willing to take an offer like that.

    On another note, it looks like we aren't going to be trying Riley out in the OF until later in Spring Training. That is a little disappointing to me. I'd like to see him get as many reps as possible out there. It'd be great if he could be called up to provide us a quality bench bat that had IF/OF power corner versatility. I could see him eventually serving the role that Duvall was supposed to serve for us, with the added benefit of being able to play 3rd sometimes.
    He has months to figure out the OF in AAA.

    Camargo is the one who should be getting the reps now.

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  7. #9724
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    Quote Originally Posted by tululush View Post
    Having 2/3 of the O'Ventebrel monster in the pen would be a sight for sore eyes
    8th Inning - Venters
    9th Inning - Kimbrel

    With McCann catching behind homeplate and a grounder to first with Freeman stepping on it for the final out.

    What year is this again? This is a BIG sign to me that Fredi needs to come back, especially now that he's educated in saber. Stars are aligning.
    Forever Fredi


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hudson2 View Post
    Iím gonna agree. His price has to have came way down by now. Iíd offer 3/45 with an option for a 4th year with a 3 million buyout. He may bite.
    This type of offer is in the neighborhood of the low end I think it will take to get Kimbrel.

    Problem is, can the Braves afford $15M per year after giving Markakis $4M when they couldn't afford to give Brantley $16M+ before they signed Markakis?

    If the Braves were unwilling to give Cutch or Brantley 3 years, would they be willing to give Kimbrel 3 years? Is a declining BP arm in his 30s less risky?
    Gausman had a bad walk ratio for us -CrazyTrain 11/20/2018
    BB/9 with Braves: 2.72

    Fried, Newk and a couple other guys for Bumgarner and give him a pay day for 6ish years -CrazyTrain 10/15/18

    Matt Adams to the Tampa Bay Rays for Jake Odorizzi makes too much sense not to happen -clvclv 10/17/17
    Matt Adams non-tendered by Braves 12/2/17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    This type of offer is in the neighborhood of the low end I think it will take to get Kimbrel.

    Problem is, can the Braves afford $15M per year after giving Markakis $4M when they couldn't afford to give Brantley $16M+ before they signed Markakis?

    If the Braves were unwilling to give Cutch or Brantley 3 years, would they be willing to give Kimbrel 3 years? Is a declining BP arm in his 30s less risky?
    Doesn't make sense. We'd be blowing the flexibility to make any significant mid-season moves.
    ďIt's a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning.Ē Senator Bob Corker

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  13. #9727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    This type of offer is in the neighborhood of the low end I think it will take to get Kimbrel.

    Problem is, can the Braves afford $15M per year after giving Markakis $4M when they couldn't afford to give Brantley $16M+ before they signed Markakis?

    If the Braves were unwilling to give Cutch or Brantley 3 years, would they be willing to give Kimbrel 3 years? Is a declining BP arm in his 30s less risky?
    I may be playing the ignorant devil's advocate here, but are we 100% sure they were unwilling to pay Cutch or Brantley? Maybe they just weren't into Cutch and Brantley took a different deal. I may have missed something, but I feel it's not smart to assume Atlanta doesn't have the funds when they just well might and the opportunities just haven't worked out.
    "Can a man still be brave if he is afraid? That is the only time a man can be brave." - G.R.R.M (Game of Thrones)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    He has months to figure out the OF in AAA.

    Camargo is the one who should be getting the reps now.
    If Riley's bat will play at the MLB level then I think it'd be best to get him on the 25 man as early as reasonably possible. Getting him some reps in the outfield now, when nothing is on the line, would increase the likelihood that he could come up and provide us with another quality bat. I don't think Riley's offense needs that much more time in the minors. Its just a matter of finding him a spot or two where he could get some at bats/starts.

    As far as Camargo is concerned, I'm pretty sure that both Riley and Camargo could take reps out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UNCBlue012 View Post
    I may be playing the ignorant devil's advocate here, but are we 100% sure they were unwilling to pay Cutch or Brantley? Maybe they just weren't into Cutch and Brantley took a different deal. I may have missed something, but I feel it's not smart to assume Atlanta doesn't have the funds when they just well might and the opportunities just haven't worked out.
    Adding Kimbrel now means the opening day payroll would be $130M+.

    Nothing I have seen for the last 5 years leads me to conclude the Braves are able to support an opening day payroll at that level.

    For a long time now I have claimed the 2019 opening day payroll would sit around $120M (just like I predicted the 2018 payroll would be around $10M), and nothing that has happened changes my mind.
    Gausman had a bad walk ratio for us -CrazyTrain 11/20/2018
    BB/9 with Braves: 2.72

    Fried, Newk and a couple other guys for Bumgarner and give him a pay day for 6ish years -CrazyTrain 10/15/18

    Matt Adams to the Tampa Bay Rays for Jake Odorizzi makes too much sense not to happen -clvclv 10/17/17
    Matt Adams non-tendered by Braves 12/2/17

  16. #9730
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    ďNothing I have seen for the last 5 years leads me to conclude the Braves are able to support an opening day payroll at that level.Ē

    Nothing I have seen for the last 5 years leads me to conclude Liberty would cut into there profits For an opening day payroll at that level.

    Fixed it for you.
    Not being able to support a payroll of 130M plus because of lack of funds is much different then what the Braves do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzworm View Post
    “Nothing I have seen for the last 5 years leads me to conclude the Braves are able to support an opening day payroll at that level.”

    Nothing I have seen for the last 5 years leads me to conclude Liberty would cut into there profits For an opening day payroll at that level.

    Fixed it for you.
    Not being able to support a payroll of 130M plus because of lack of funds is much different then what the Braves do.
    Servicing the debt incurred by building the new park and the surrounding area is likely the reason payroll is where it is despite increased revenues.

    Having said that, I'm not going to argue semantics...

    The Braves are unlikely to have a 2019 opening day payroll of $130M+...no matter how folks want to word the explanation.
    Gausman had a bad walk ratio for us -CrazyTrain 11/20/2018
    BB/9 with Braves: 2.72

    Fried, Newk and a couple other guys for Bumgarner and give him a pay day for 6ish years -CrazyTrain 10/15/18

    Matt Adams to the Tampa Bay Rays for Jake Odorizzi makes too much sense not to happen -clvclv 10/17/17
    Matt Adams non-tendered by Braves 12/2/17

  18. #9732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Individual-1 View Post
    This is a BIG sign to me that Fredi needs to come back, especially now that he's educated in saber. Stars are aligning.
    I'm just hoping we can get Snitker educated in saber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Servicing the debt incurred by building the new park and the surrounding area is likely the reason payroll is where it is despite increased revenues.

    Having said that, I'm not going to argue semantics...

    The Braves are unlikely to have a 2019 opening day payroll of $130M+...no matter how folks want to word the explanation.
    Yup. People need to stop blaming liberty and realize TG is the head hauncho who is setting the budget. LM wants the Braves to appreciate and could care less about anything else. TG decided to pump the excess revenues back into debt because he know commercial real estate is extremely risky and he wants to clear as much debt while revenues are high. The problem is that if the Braves suck then his commercial business could suffer to. It might have been wise to make sure the product is good and that dollars will continue to flow into the battery.
    Coppy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garmel View Post
    I'm just hoping we can get Snitker educated in saber.

    I think asking Snitker to balance playing time is above his intellect. He is cut from the mold of Bobby who wrote his lineup in sharpie so he didnít have to keep rewriting it every night. I worry about a it being able to handle getting Camargo and cluberson enough playing time.

    This is the guy who let FF and Neck play every game when there was plenty of time to rest them.
    Coppy

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    Not that he was ever likely in our plans, but it the marking for Marwin seems to be heating up. There are rumors that he and the Twins are discussing a 3 year deal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Adding Kimbrel now means the opening day payroll would be $130M+.

    Nothing I have seen for the last 5 years leads me to conclude the Braves are able to support an opening day payroll at that level.

    For a long time now I have claimed the 2019 opening day payroll would sit around $120M (just like I predicted the 2018 payroll would be around $10M), and nothing that has happened changes my mind.
    Do we know payroll is at 114? I was thinking it was closer to 110. Cut Freeman before the end of camp and save another 1.3 million. That could put payroll at roughly 123-124 million.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanMatt View Post
    I think asking Snitker to balance playing time is above his intellect. He is cut from the mold of Bobby who wrote his lineup in sharpie so he didn’t have to keep rewriting it every night. I worry about a it being able to handle getting Camargo and cluberson enough playing time.

    This is the guy who let FF and Neck play every game when there was plenty of time to rest them.
    When I read Snit's comments claiming he had never before seen some of the data the AA FO presented to him, I concluded he deserved a chance to learn because he was a manager that the seemed to love. He won last year, and whether or not it's right to give him credit for that, it's impossible to get rid of him after what happened in 2019.

    So I'll remain cautiously optimistic that Snit can continue to learn how to digest the new data the AA FO gives him, and is able to leverage his popularity with the players to get them to buy into it. For example, I think the comments about using Viz/Minter as co-closers based on situation is a good sign (they had 15 and 16 saves in 2018). There already seems to be a strong narrative involving the "get everyone some rest" line of thinking (almost everyone who has been interviewed has mentioned something about being tired and/or getting more rest), which could easily be spun by Snit into more appropriate platoon usage (rest guys when they don't have the platoon disadvantage, as logic obviously dictates).
    Gausman had a bad walk ratio for us -CrazyTrain 11/20/2018
    BB/9 with Braves: 2.72

    Fried, Newk and a couple other guys for Bumgarner and give him a pay day for 6ish years -CrazyTrain 10/15/18

    Matt Adams to the Tampa Bay Rays for Jake Odorizzi makes too much sense not to happen -clvclv 10/17/17
    Matt Adams non-tendered by Braves 12/2/17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    Do we know payroll is at 114? I was thinking it was closer to 110. Cut Freeman before the end of camp and save another 1.3 million. That could put payroll at roughly 123-124 million.
    Adding up publicly known contracts is trivial math, which is why AA's "I don't know what math they are using" comments about the payroll were so blatantly stupid.

    The sum of these contracts is indisputable fact, even a sales engineer can understand them.

    Exact payroll figures with a 0 still in place for a Bench/BP job (depending on how many pitchers they want to carry):

    Pos Player 2019 Salary
    1 C Flowers $4.00
    2 1B Freeman $21.36
    3 2B Albies $0.55
    4 3B Donaldson $23.00
    5 SS Swanson $0.55
    6 LF Acuna $0.55
    7 CF Inciarte $5.70
    8 RF Markakis $4.00

    9 SP1 Teheran $11.17
    10 SP2 Folty $5.48
    11 SP3 Gausman $9.35
    12 SP4 Newk $0.55
    13 SP5 Touki $0.55

    14 BN1 Culberson $1.40
    15 BN2 Duvall $2.88
    16 BN3 Camargo $0.55
    17 BN4 Backup OF $0.00
    18 BN5 McCann $2.00

    19 BP1 O'Day $9.00
    20 BP2 Viz $4.80
    21 BP3 Freeman $1.58
    22 BP4 Venters $2.25
    23 BP5 Minter $0.55
    24 BP6 Winkler $1.61
    25 BP7 Fried $0.55

    Total $113.96

    AFAIK, all the Arb contracts are non-guaranteed (Gaus, Folty, Viz, Duvall, Winkler, Venters, Freeman, Culberson), so any of them could be cut early in ST to free up payroll. There is certainly some flexibility (AA's new pet word) to make some things happen.

    I still project the opening day payroll to be $120M+, and expect to see the Braves add around the fringes of the roster "soon"...unless AA pulls a rabbit out of his hat and unloads some payroll.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 02-21-2019 at 06:58 PM.
    Gausman had a bad walk ratio for us -CrazyTrain 11/20/2018
    BB/9 with Braves: 2.72

    Fried, Newk and a couple other guys for Bumgarner and give him a pay day for 6ish years -CrazyTrain 10/15/18

    Matt Adams to the Tampa Bay Rays for Jake Odorizzi makes too much sense not to happen -clvclv 10/17/17
    Matt Adams non-tendered by Braves 12/2/17

  27. #9739
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    This type of offer is in the neighborhood of the low end I think it will take to get Kimbrel.

    Problem is, can the Braves afford $15M per year after giving Markakis $4M when they couldn't afford to give Brantley $16M+ before they signed Markakis?

    If the Braves were unwilling to give Cutch or Brantley 3 years, would they be willing to give Kimbrel 3 years? Is a declining BP arm in his 30s less risky?
    Glad we didnít give Cutch that.

    Brantley just wanted to play with the Astros. Thatís understandable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBravos View Post
    Glad we didn’t give Cutch that.

    Brantley just wanted to play with the Astros. That’s understandable.
    See how this goes? All these attempts at justifications and explanations as to why the Braves didn't sign someone so folks can continue to hold out hope they will make an impact signing like Kimbrel.

    The obvious solution is simply, "they can't afford it".
    Last edited by Enscheff; 02-21-2019 at 06:55 PM.
    Gausman had a bad walk ratio for us -CrazyTrain 11/20/2018
    BB/9 with Braves: 2.72

    Fried, Newk and a couple other guys for Bumgarner and give him a pay day for 6ish years -CrazyTrain 10/15/18

    Matt Adams to the Tampa Bay Rays for Jake Odorizzi makes too much sense not to happen -clvclv 10/17/17
    Matt Adams non-tendered by Braves 12/2/17

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