Page 216 of 579 FirstFirst ... 116166206214215216217218226266316 ... LastLast
Results 4,301 to 4,320 of 11579

Thread: 2018 Offseason And Targets

  1. #4301
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    8,025
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,467
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,951
    Thanked in
    1,360 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    I'd hit the brakes on Jeter and the Marlins front office being morons.

    It's a special situation in Miami and the financial imperative often overrides baseball.

    we have not seen what they end up netting out of Realmuto and we don't know what anyone has offered. If you don't love Riley as a prospect then there is nothing special about the rumored Braves package. There is plenty of reason not to love Riley.
    they have done nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt.
    they've done plenty to lose it.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

  2. #4302
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,385
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,392
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,745
    Thanked in
    1,974 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    If you don't love Riley as a prospect then there is nothing special about the rumored Braves package. There is plenty of reason not to love Riley.
    I think that's the problem right there. You can't fall in love with prospects. You take the best overall package available. May be they aren't in love with Riley. But if the Braves are offering Riley and Newk as the headline for a package and that's the best offer, you should take it. Realmuto is never going to have anymore value than he does now. If you're intent on trading him (and they should be) take the best offer and be done with it. I understand playing the market and trying to drive up interest, but it was a deep catcher market, so no one was going to significantly overpay while there were quality options on the market. But at this point, they've lost several bidders and have lost quite a bit of leverage. The longer they wait, teams will start to fill their vacancies elsewhere and the Marlins will be left without a partner.

  3. #4303
    It's OVER 5,000! Hudson2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    8,679
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    956
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,455
    Thanked in
    1,123 Posts
    And I’m sure they’ve pissed some teams off by dragging their feet on it. AA is said to not be talking to them anymore, the Mets have moved on, and nobody else has stepped up to get him yet. They need to take the best offer on the table and be done.

  4. #4304
    Anytime Now Frankie...
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,668
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,323
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    765
    Thanked in
    445 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    I'd hit the brakes on Jeter and the Marlins front office being morons.

    It's a special situation in Miami and the financial imperative often overrides baseball.

    we have not seen what they end up netting out of Realmuto and we don't know what anyone has offered. If you don't love Riley as a prospect then there is nothing special about the rumored Braves package. There is plenty of reason not to love Riley.
    That kind of thinking from a front office ends up netting you Jeff Parrett and Jim Vatcher for your best tradable asset.

  5. #4305
    NL Rookie of the Year Acuña’s Bat Flip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Gaffney, South Carolina (Home of the Big Butt "Peach" on I-85)
    Posts
    2,306
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    276
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    539
    Thanked in
    280 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    I'm notoriously impatient, but I'm doing my best to not panic about not filling the LF spot. When is a good time frame to hit the panic button? Haha
    By the middle of February. There will eventually be more outfielders available than chairs to sit in as has been stated. Trust in AA!

  6. #4306
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    7,772
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    270
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,491
    Thanked in
    1,150 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkPiggler View Post
    That kind of thinking from a front office ends up netting you Jeff Parrett and Jim Vatcher for your best tradable asset.

    What can I tell you? The Marlins have concerns other than baseball.

    They have sold off again and again and they've demonstrated repeatedly they have no gate at all when they are bad and precious little when they are good.


    If they don't like Riley as a prospect, there is no reason for them to take them as the center of a package back just because Braves fans think Riley, the one position prospect the club seems willing to move, is worth more.

    they very well may find a better deal elsewhere.

  7. #4307
    Anytime Now Frankie... tululush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    9
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    225
    Thanked in
    180 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    What can I tell you? The Marlins have concerns other than baseball.

    They have sold off again and again and they've demonstrated repeatedly they have no gate at all when they are bad and precious little when they are good.


    If they don't like Riley as a prospect, there is no reason for them to take them as the center of a package back just because Braves fans think Riley, the one position prospect the club seems willing to move, is worth more.

    they very well may find a better deal elsewhere.
    This is extremely flawed logic. First, if they don't care bc they 'have no gate' when they are bad and 'precious little' when they are good, then they wouldn't care about public perception. But that's all Jeter cares about, a beauty contest. If he didn't then he wouldn't be looking to overshoot the moon and take more bc he messed up the Yelich trade. Second, you take the best package regardless. And chances are they could have done better had they traded him last year. But they keep waiting and their market keeps dwindling. Riley is the best package they're going to receive. If they were to receive better they likely would have accepted already. But they keep waiting for something that won't happen and slowly, one by one, potential trade partners move on. Soon AA will move on and look to allocate those assets elsewhere in a trade. And then the Marlins will be left with nothing, except an unhappy player who's already said he wants to be traded and will finish in last place again. They have handled this beyond poorly and every day that passes it's more likely that nothing will come of it and they'll be worse off for it.

  8. #4308
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    8,025
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,467
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,951
    Thanked in
    1,360 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    What can I tell you? The Marlins have concerns other than baseball.

    They have sold off again and again and they've demonstrated repeatedly they have no gate at all when they are bad and precious little when they are good.


    If they don't like Riley as a prospect, there is no reason for them to take them as the center of a package back just because Braves fans think Riley, the one position prospect the club seems willing to move, is worth more.

    they very well may find a better deal elsewhere.
    how they feel about riley isn't really the point. they've already semi-botched this trade before even making it.
    they're:
    1). already trading him too late (as it should have been last off-season, or mid-season).
    2). losing potential suitors by holding out (because of other botched deals) for an offer that isn't likely to come at this point
    3). losing leverage as teams look elsewhere

    no team really needs to make a deal for JTR. the marlins basically have to trade him at this point, and everyone knows it.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

  9. #4309
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    7,772
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    270
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,491
    Thanked in
    1,150 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    I think that's the problem right there. You can't fall in love with prospects. You take the best overall package available. May be they aren't in love with Riley. But if the Braves are offering Riley and Newk as the headline for a package and that's the best offer, you should take it. Realmuto is never going to have anymore value than he does now. If you're intent on trading him (and they should be) take the best offer and be done with it. I understand playing the market and trying to drive up interest, but it was a deep catcher market, so no one was going to significantly overpay while there were quality options on the market. But at this point, they've lost several bidders and have lost quite a bit of leverage. The longer they wait, teams will start to fill their vacancies elsewhere and the Marlins will be left without a partner.

    I mean you are lambasting them for not taking a hypothetical package of the two Braves assets people are most willing to part with. Two very flawed players.

  10. #4310
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    I'm notoriously impatient, but I'm doing my best to not panic about not filling the LF spot. When is a good time frame to hit the panic button? Haha
    So far, only one good LF option has been signed, and he signed for more than most projections had for him.

  11. #4311
    Where's My Cup of Coffee?
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,148
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    7
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    341
    Thanked in
    220 Posts
    I'm not really getting the love for Realmuto. He was the best catcher offensively last year, but nobody would've said that last offseason. Catching is down as a position, and honestly Realmuto isn't that great offensively. (Good, not great). If it was a choice between him and an OF, give me the OF because there's more offense there.

  12. #4312
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    I'd hit the brakes on Jeter and the Marlins front office being morons.

    It's a special situation in Miami and the financial imperative often overrides baseball.

    we have not seen what they end up netting out of Realmuto and we don't know what anyone has offered. If you don't love Riley as a prospect then there is nothing special about the rumored Braves package. There is plenty of reason not to love Riley.
    Well, you also think Haniger and Freeman are the same situation for a team entering a rebuild.

    We’ve seen enough moves from the Marlins to conclude they are a below average FO.

  13. #4313
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    8,025
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,467
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,951
    Thanked in
    1,360 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerfherders View Post
    I'm not really getting the love for Realmuto. He was the best catcher offensively last year, but nobody would've said that last offseason. Catching is down as a position, and honestly Realmuto isn't that great offensively. (Good, not great). If it was a choice between him and an OF, give me the OF because there's more offense there.
    he's been close to or above 4 fWAR the last 3 seasons. he was very good offensively last year.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

  14. #4314
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    8,025
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,467
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,951
    Thanked in
    1,360 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    I mean you are lambasting them for not taking a hypothetical package of the two Braves assets people are most willing to part with. Two very flawed players.
    dude, it isn't about the hypothetical players being offered. it's about their process. their process is bad, and has been bad in the past with other players. it's nothing new, and deserves criticism.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

  15. #4315
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,385
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,392
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,745
    Thanked in
    1,974 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    I mean you are lambasting them for not taking a hypothetical package of the two Braves assets people are most willing to part with. Two very flawed players.
    I'm not lambasting them for not taking the Braves imaginary package. The point I'm making is that you should never fall in love with particular prospects. That's how you get burned in trades (like the M's in the Paxton). If the Braves have the best package, whether you're "in love" with the prospects or not, you should take the best package.

  16. #4316
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    7,772
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    270
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,491
    Thanked in
    1,150 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Well, you also think Haniger and Freeman are the same situation for a team entering a rebuild.

    We’ve seen enough moves from the Marlins to conclude they are a below average FO.

    I compared their situations, I did not say they were the same.

  17. #4317
    It's OVER 5,000! msstate7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    37,263
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    404
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,293
    Thanked in
    3,675 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    I'm not lambasting them for not taking the Braves imaginary package. The point I'm making is that you should never fall in love with particular prospects. That's how you get burned in trades (like the M's in the Paxton). If the Braves have the best package, whether you're "in love" with the prospects or not, you should take the best package.
    But if you don't like the prospect, you could hold for deadline or a contender potentially losing a catcher.

  18. #4318
    "What is a clvclv"
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Nebo, NC
    Posts
    9,634
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5,354
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,340
    Thanked in
    1,628 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    What kind of trophy did Tim Hudson get? Guess he wasn't worth trading for.
    At what point did I say Syndergaard "wasn't worth trading for"? You guys continue to look at these things in a vaccuum and act like the only players involved were the two of them.

    AA was making a win-now push and had just traded for Mark Buerhle, Jose Reyes, Josh Johnson, and John Buck. Dickey was coming off a Cy Young season where he struck out 25% of the hitters he faced while walking less than 6%. They also got Josh Thole, who was Dickey's personal Catcher. Syndergaard didn't even make the top half of FanGraphs' Top 100 prospects lists at that time, and couldn't throw a breaking ball for strikes. He was #64 - behind future "Aces" Justin Nicolino, Drew Hutchison, Daniel Norris (all 3 ranked ahead of him in Toronto's system), Taylor Jungmann, Tyrell Jenkins, Daniel Corcino, Trevor May, A. J. Cole, Drew Pomeranz, Manny Banuelos, Mike Montgomery, Randall Delgado, Zach Lee, Martin Perez, Matt Harvey, Arodys Vizcaino, Jarrod Parker, Danny Hultzen, Jacob Turner, Zack Wheeler, Archie Bradley, Tyler Skaggs, Jameson Taillon, Trevor Bauer, Gerritt Cole, Dylan Bundy, Julio Teheran, Shelby Miller, and Matt Moore. He was Folty when the Braves traded for him. Apparently AA wasn't the only person who missed when projecting him, and that probably has a lot to do with why he's been gun-shy about trading from this group of arms.

    There's no doubt the Jays (and AA) "lost" the deal, but the teams both had completely different motivations - AA was making a push at the time and needed a frontline SP (which Dickey was at that point), and he got one with two years left on a manageable contract. The Mutts had no farm system and were looking to build one. They gave up a quality major league asset for a RAW young arm and pretty well thought of Catcher prospect (d'Arnaud).

    Syndergaard was the equivalent of an Anderson/Touki/Gohara type at that point. The fact that he worked out is what bit the Jays in the *ss - just like the fact that Folty looks like he's going to work out makes the Astros front office at the time he was traded look "dumb". Those things happen when you make win-now trades. Chances are, if AA gives up Riley and Anderson/Touki/Gohara for two years of Realmuto he'll regret that too because at least one of them will reach their ceiling. The Mutts got two Top 100 prospects (neither in the Top 30) - #64 and #37 - for Dickey and a backup Catcher who could handle the knuckler (which is usually pretty tough to find as well).
    Last edited by clvclv; 12-17-2018 at 12:41 PM.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

  19. #4319
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,385
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,392
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,745
    Thanked in
    1,974 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    But if you don't like the prospect, you could hold for deadline or a contender potentially losing a catcher.
    He loses half a year of control though. He will not gain any value whatsoever between now and then. That best they could hope for is for him to maintain his current value with the contenders premium. But even then, you run a pretty big risk they he declines or gets injured, which isn't uncommon for catchers.

  20. #4320
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,385
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,392
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,745
    Thanked in
    1,974 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    At what point did I say Syndergaard "wasn't worth trading for"? You guys continue to look at these things in a vaccuum and act like the only players involved were the two of them.

    AA was making a win-now push and had just traded for Mark Buerhle, Jose Reyes, Josh Johnson, and John Buck. Dickey was coming off a Cy Young season where he struck out 25% of the hitters he faced while walking less than 6%. They also got Josh Thole, who was Dickey's personal Catcher. Syndergaard didn't even make the top half of FanGraphs' Top 100 prospects lists at that time, and couldn't throw a breaking ball for strikes. He was #64 - behind future "Aces" Justin Nicolino, Drew Hutchison, Daniel Norris (all 3 ranked ahead of him in Toronto's system), Taylor Jungmann, Tyrell Jenkins, Daniel Corcino, Trevor May, A. J. Cole, Drew Pomeranz, Manny Banuelos, Mike Montgomery, Randall Delgado, Zach Lee, Martin Perez, Matt Harvey, Arodys Vizcaino, Jarrod Parker, Danny Hultzen, Jacob Turner, Zack Wheeler, Archie Bradley, Tyler Skaggs, Jameson Taillon, Trevor Bauer, Gerritt Cole, Dylan Bundy, Julio Teheran, Shelby Miller, and Matt Moore. He was Folty when the Braves traded for him. Apparently AA wasn't the only person who missed when projecting him, and that probably has a lot to do with why he's been gun-shy about trading from this group of arms.

    There's no doubt the Jays (and AA) "lost" the deal, but the teams both had completely different motivations - AA was making a push at the time and needed a frontline SP (which Dickey was at that point), and he got one with two years left on a manageable contract. The Mutts had no farm system and were looking to build one. They gave up a quality major league asset for a RAW young arm and pretty well thought of Catcher prospect (d'Arnaud).

    Syndergaard was the equivalent of an Anderson/Touki/Gohara type at that point. The fact that he worked out is what bit the Jays in the *ss - just like the fact that Folty looks like he's going to work out makes the Astros front office at the time he was traded look "dumb". Those things happen when you make win-now trades. Chances are, if AA gives up Riley and Anderson/Touki/Gohara for two years of Realmuto he'll regret that too because at least one of them will reach their ceiling.
    Your argument makes no sense. You say he wasn't regarded that highly at the time (not really true) but also that he hasn't done anything in his career that makes the trade that bad (also untrue). It seems like you just want to be a contrarian.

    You also fail to mention that Snydergaard wasn't even the main piece of the trade, as Travis d'Arnaud was the main piece of the deal.
    Last edited by Carp; 12-17-2018 at 12:36 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Around the League: 2017 offseason edition / 2018 Season
    By bravesfanforlife88 in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 2322
    Last Post: 10-31-2018, 12:15 PM
  2. Around the League: 2018/2019 Offseason
    By bravesfanforlife88 in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-21-2018, 05:44 PM
  3. Discussion of Braves 2018 Offseason plans
    By Horsehide Harry in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 1144
    Last Post: 03-05-2018, 10:31 PM
  4. Potential 2016 Offseason Targets
    By clvclv in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 166
    Last Post: 10-08-2016, 02:37 AM
  5. 2018 Offseason
    By thewupk in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 09-28-2016, 07:38 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •