2018 Offseason And Targets

[Enscheff]

...so is grandal? and grandal is a way better pitch framer.
Grandal and Haniger would also be a good way to start the winter...

I'm willing to bet Haniger is not available. Teams don't acquire a MLB OFer with 4 years of control and then trade away another MLB OFer with 4 years of control.

[Enscheff]

I think Brantley, Donaldson, Realmuto or Ramos, would be a very solid start and I think you would have retained resources to go get relief help a complementary bench player and explore a rotation upgrade at the same time.

I'd be very flexible about selling performing veterans acquisitions at the deadline if it didn't work out record wise.


I suppose there are better long term solutions and with theoretically less risk, but I am afraid it would come at a real cost to the system that most would want to avoid. But I'd probably be more willing to do that than some folks.

I don't think Atlanta should scorch earth the system to try and win right now, but there is no sense in having the best farm system forever.

Those acquisitions put the Braves at $120M-$125M, and leave zero room for any other additions of note.

I think it's safe to assume the Braves will not be adding an impact player at 3B, and will see how Camargo/Riley (if not traded) plays out until the deadline. At that point we may see them go after someone like Arenado.

[Super]

I'm willing to bet Haniger is not available. Teams don't acquire a MLB OFer with 4 years of control and then trade away another MLB OFer with 4 years of control.

i'd agree. in that case, replace haniger with peralta.

[Enscheff]

i'd agree. in that case, replace haniger with peralta.

We know/think the Braves are going to make a fairly significant trade, and we assume it's either going to be for a C or cOF. That means 1 of the 2 main scenarios we see being bandied about here: Realmuto/Brantley, or Grandal/Peralta.

I would prefer Grandal/Peralta, but I think all the "acquire a TOR pitcher" smoke spewed by Bowman may point towards a 3rd scenario where the Braves trade for 2-3 years of a 3+ win SP, sign Brantley, sign a lesser catcher than Grandal, and spread more of the money around to a good LHH bench bat and some BP help.

I'd hate to see the Braves consolidate young pitching into old pitching, but it is a distinct possibility, and the one that might actually be most likely. I do think folks who say the Braves will not give up a pick for a FA with a QO may be correct, even though I don't agree with the policy.

[clvclv]

Blurb just reported on XM said that Price may be the new Pitching Coach.

[Garmel]

Price does have a reputation for being a good pitching coach but he does come off as being unhinged mentally.

[Carp]

Wut, Realmuto is a top 2-3 catcher in baseball lol. Grandal would also cost a pick and will have an assload of suitors.

Haniger is better than the FA OF'ers not named Harper but is he even available? I'd trade for Haniger over JT if it was one or the other but Brantley and JT would be a good way to start the winter.

Wut, Realmuto may be a top 3 catcher, but he is only a 4 WAR player. Grandal is a 3 WAR player. Ramos a 2-3 WAR player. Hell even Zuk has been a 2 WAR player the last couple years.

Haniger is a legit 6 WAR player. The only FA OFer comparable to him is Harper, and he's nowhere near feasible for us. It would be much smarter to use our prospect currency on Haniger and sign someone like Ramos or Grandal than trade for Realmuto and sign Brantley or Pollock.

[nsacpi]

Haniger was a 4.6 WAR player in 2018.

Steamer projects him as a 2.8 player in 2019, partly due to his BABIP coming down to .305 from .336 in 2018.

[Super]

Haniger was a 4.6 WAR player in 2018.

Steamer projects him as a 2.8 player in 2019, partly due to his BABIP coming down to .305 from .336 in 2018.

Not sure how indicative it is, but he's tended to carry higher BABIPs in the minors and majors.

[Enscheff]

Wut, Realmuto may be a top 3 catcher, but he is only a 4 WAR player. Grandal is a 3 WAR player. Ramos a 2-3 WAR player. Hell even Zuk has been a 2 WAR player the last couple years.

Haniger is a legit 6 WAR player. The only FA OFer comparable to him is Harper, and he's nowhere near feasible for us. It would be much smarter to use our prospect currency on Haniger and sign someone like Ramos or Grandal than trade for Realmuto and sign Brantley or Pollock.

Whoa there sparky...

Haniger is a good player, but we quite possibly just saw his career year at the age of 27.

[Heyward]

Wut, Realmuto may be a top 3 catcher, but he is only a 4 WAR player. Grandal is a 3 WAR player. Ramos a 2-3 WAR player. Hell even Zuk has been a 2 WAR player the last couple years.

Haniger is a legit 6 WAR player. The only FA OFer comparable to him is Harper, and he's nowhere near feasible for us. It would be much smarter to use our prospect currency on Haniger and sign someone like Ramos or Grandal than trade for Realmuto and sign Brantley or Pollock.

Only a 4 WAR player at a position not many teams get great production from.

And Haniger may had had a career year, and given the M's got Mallex back in their trade, i'm not sure they're gonna move Haniger.

Brantley in FA and Realmuto in trade, it's gotta be one or the other, is the best bet imo and you dont lose any draft picks.

[Carp]

Haniger was a 4.6 WAR player in 2018.

Steamer projects him as a 2.8 player in 2019, partly due to his BABIP coming down to .305 from .336 in 2018.

6.1 bWAR

[BeanieAntics]

Only a 4 WAR player at a position not many teams get great production from.

And Haniger may had had a career year, and given the M's got Mallex back in their trade, i'm not sure they're gonna move Haniger.

Brantley in FA and Realmuto in trade, it's gotta be one or the other, is the best bet imo and you dont lose any draft picks.

In my eyes, the draft pick is the only true downside of the Grandal/Peralta path. I like Peralta more than Brantley and Peralta carries less injury risk. I like Grandal more than Realmuto because of his framing and the fact that he's not really that big of an offensive dropoff. I also like this path because I would expect it to be the cheaper path in terms of prospects, and possibly also in terms of money if the 3/45 projections are correct for Grandal. I also like this path because even if you miss out on Grandal you could sign Ramos as the backup plan.

Losing the draft pick sucks, but lets remember that you don't lose your 1st anymore. Its a 2nd round pick which has substantially less surplus value than a 1st. I think the cost of that pick would be made up by the fact that we'd probably give up less in a Peralta deal than a Realmuto deal.

[Carp]

Only a 4 WAR player at a position not many teams get great production from.

And Haniger may had had a career year, and given the M's got Mallex back in their trade, i'm not sure they're gonna move Haniger.

Brantley in FA and Realmuto in trade, it's gotta be one or the other, is the best bet imo and you dont lose any draft picks.

None of that disputes what I said. You disagreed with Super that that the difference in Realmuto and FA catchers wasn't far apart. But Super was indeed correct. The diffence in Realmuto and Grandal/Ramos is roughly 1-1.5 WAR. That's not insignificant, but it isn't some massive difference either.

[Heyward]

In my eyes, the draft pick is the only true downside of the Grandal/Peralta path. I like Peralta more than Brantley and Peralta carries less injury risk. I like Grandal more than Realmuto because of his framing and the fact that he's not really that big of an offensive dropoff. I also like this path because I would expect it to be the cheaper path in terms of prospects, and possibly also in terms of money if the 3/45 projections are correct for Grandal. I also like this path because even if you miss out on Grandal you could sign Ramos as the backup plan.

Losing the draft pick sucks, but lets remember that you don't lose your 1st anymore. Its a 2nd round pick which has substantially less surplus value than a 1st. I think the cost of that pick would be made up by the fact that we'd probably give up less in a Peralta deal than a Realmuto deal.

The better question is Peralta even available for trade? That we dont know. We know Realmuto is.

[Super]

The better question is Peralta even available for trade? That we dont know. We know Realmuto is.

that's not really a better question. just because we don't know that right now doesn't mean we won't. we also have a pretty good idea that he will, in fact, be available.

[Enscheff]

None of that disputes what I said. You disagreed with Super that that the difference in Realmuto and FA catchers wasn't far apart. But Super was indeed correct. The diffence in Realmuto and Grandal/Ramos is roughly 1-1.5 WAR. That's not insignificant, but it isn't some massive difference either.

When taking framing into account, as modern FOs assuredly do, Realmuto and Grandal are almost identical. This notion that Realmuto is superior to Grandal is perpetuated by folks who don't understand how to value catchers.

We've already seen the Braves prioritize pitch framing by letting Suzuki walk, extending Flowers, and acquiring Lopez to be the AAAA catcher. I would take that as clear evidence the Braves are properly valuing framing skills.

[Enscheff]

Only a 4 WAR player at a position not many teams get great production from.

And Haniger may had had a career year, and given the M's got Mallex back in their trade, i'm not sure they're gonna move Haniger.

Brantley in FA and Realmuto in trade, it's gotta be one or the other, is the best bet imo and you dont lose any draft picks.

Isn't it a bit (or a lot) hypocritical to call saving draft picks a positive while not calling the huge prospect cost to acquire Realmuto a negative?

You are in favor of dealing away current prospects rather than future prospects?

[bravesfanMatt]

What about JT and Peralta. We have the prospects to do it. Money left to buy whatever we want then.

[Enscheff]

If I were AA, I would fix the major holes at C and cOF rather quickly, and then sit back and wait for bench pieces and BP arms to drop to bargain prices at the end of the off season.

It happens every single year.