DOB: Braves offseason about to get a lot busier. - Gamel released.

[Heyward]

Generally, yes. But that shouldn't (and hasn't) deterred the Braves from looking.

I don't think anybody has said that our pitching isn't fine, but we don't have an ace - not even close.

They are the ones you want out there in the big games (2012 NLWC, 2013 NLDS Game 4) to help us, you know, win a championship.

Garcia pitched 6 innings, gave up 2 runs (2 solo HR's)

Thats as good as you can ask for.

Also, what it would cost to get Price IYO?

At least CB, Wood, Sims would get talks going and add 1-2 more.

It's just not worth it.

[Heyward]

Teams in the WS last year.

Bos: Lester, Lackey, Peavy, Bucholtz.

Stl: Wainwright, Wacha, Kelly, Lynn.

There is maybe 1 ace in that group.

Lester has been an ace but what up and down the last 2-3 years prior to last season.

Also, Dodgers had Greinke/Kershaw, they were sitting at home.

Tigers had Verlander/Sanchez/Scherzer/Fister which is the best 1-4 in baseball, they were sitting at home. That with the best hitter on the planet along with Fielder/VMart/Peralta, among others. Playoffs are a crapshoot.

Getting an ace wont magically make Atl win the WS.

Getting an ace doesnt guarantee a damn thing.

Minor/Julio/Medlen/one of Floyd/Beachy/Wood is more than good enough.

[Hawk]

I have absolutely zero qualms about giving up Sims in a deal for Price. And that's not an undervaluation of Sims -- that's a valuation of Price. With the acquisition of Doumit, Bethancourt is suddenly quasi-expendable. I wouldn't be opposed to moving Medlen (not in tandem with the aforementioned two, but in general). We have the talent, it's just a matter of not overpaying -- and I can certainly see why some shy away from the whole concept after the Texeira deal and given what the Rays got from KC for Shields. However, both were entirely different situations with entirely different players, personalities, and finances at play.

Looking at the bigger picture, though, this may be the best time to make a hard play for Price; there's still major quality starting pitching on the market, and if Friedman is under any sort of self-imposed mandate to move Price before the beginning of the season then Wren might have walked into a situation with the potential to unfold quite positively for the Braves. If not, no harm, no foul ... right?

Are folks really still that damaged from the Texeira trade? It's ancient history. The team has moved on quite well.

[cajunrevenge]

The Rays are looking for a sucker and after the Shields trade its hard to fault them for it. Price is only slightly more available than Minor is.

[thewupk]

If there is a deal to be made without overpaying then certainly go for it. I just don't see that being the case and most others don't either.

[Hawk]

They don't guarantee you anything. So you don't need one.

I have not said, and I will not say, that having an ace guarantees you a World Series ring. There is no one single player (save, perhaps Bo Porter) that has that type of ability.

That out of the way, show me a single World Champion in the past decade that has won without an ace.

[Hawk]

Minor is a tone setter JMO. He's the type of guy you put out on the mound who doesn't let runners score in the top half of the next inning because he relaxes a little or whatever.

Odds are we can't acquire someone who's a surefire bet to be dominant. Price may be that guy but he's not the type I think of as truly dominant. I think of Cliff Lee, or Kershaw. Neither of them we're likely to acquire though if we had the money we could probably get Lee for Bethancourt and a few other prospects. And I'd do that.

I agree with this, although I think Price could potentially put up some eye-popping numbers transitioning from the AL to NL East.

And don't get me wrong, I think Minor is a little stud-muffin, but I see him more as a Glavine needing a Maddux. A Robin without ... a Batman.

[thewupk]

I have not said, and I will not say, that having an ace guarantees you a World Series ring. There is no one single player (save, perhaps Bo Porter) that has that type of ability.

That out of the way, show me a single World Champion in the past decade that has won without an ace.

The Red Sox this year lacked an ace. Lester was once projected to be that guy but while he's still good he's not that good. Giants last year lacked an ace with Lincecum not being what he was anymore. White Sox in 05 lacked an ace. Yes Burhele was a good pitcher and had his best season but wasn't an ace either.

[The Chosen One]

It helped that it seemed like every White Sox starter was going 8 strong every game. Contreras especially pitching the time of his life.

[Hawk]

The Red Sox this year lacked an ace. Lester was once projected to be that guy but while he's still good he's not that good. Giants last year lacked an ace with Lincecum not being what he was anymore. White Sox in 05 lacked an ace. Yes Burhele was a good pitcher and had his best season but wasn't an ace either.

- Lester is an ace, at least in my book.
- Giants had Matt Cain.
- White Sox had Ozzie Guillen. But more seriously, Buehrle was their ace for a number of years and definitely in 2005 (no hitter in 05', PG in 06').

[nsacpi]

Well if Buehrle is an ace, that's kind of making up your own definition to fit your argument.

I don't think any of us would object getting a pitcher like Price or Verlander or Cliff Lee. But the price has to be reasonable. And when I see what the Rays got for Shields or the Brewers got for a few months of Greinke, I say let someone else pay that price.

[Hawk]

Well if Buehrle is an ace, that's kind of making up your own definition to fit your argument.

He's certainly not anymore.

[thewupk]

- Lester is an ace, at least in my book.
- Giants had Matt Cain.
- White Sox had Ozzie Guillen. But more seriously, Buehrle was their ace for a number of years and definitely in 2005 (no hitter in 05', PG in 06').

All good pitchers but not aces by most peoples definition. Just because you are your teams #1 it doesn't make you an ace. And I don't feel just because you have one great year it doesn't mean you are an ace just because you might be a top pitcher that year. Aces are, imo, top 10 pitchers in the game who have done it for several years. I would think my definition fits most other peoples. And those 3 certainly don't fit that bill.

[Hawk]

And when I see what the Rays got for Shields or the Brewers got for a few months of Greinke, I say let someone else pay that price.

What about what the Indians got for CC Sabathia? Or the Mariners (or Phillies) for Cliff Lee? Rockies for Ubaldo Jimenez?

Friedman isn't God.

[Hawk]

All good pitchers but not aces by most peoples definition. Just because you are your teams #1 it doesn't make you an ace. And I don't feel just because you have one great year it doesn't mean you are an ace just because you might be a top pitcher that year. Aces are, imo, top 10 pitchers in the game who have done it for several years. I would think my definition fits most other peoples. And those 3 certainly don't fit that bill.

I will give you Buerhle. But there's not really any disputing that Matt Cain and Jon Lester are aces. If they aren't aces, then David Price isn't an ace and this entire discussion is moot.

[thewupk]

What about what the Indians got for CC Sabathia? Or the Mariners (or Phillies) for Cliff Lee? Rockies for Ubaldo Jimenez?

Friedman isn't God.

Not all comparable. Sabathia was traded for a top prospect for half a season. Phillies didn't get much but the Mariners again got a top prospect for a half season of Lee. Jimenez is no ace either. He had one awesome season but other then that he's been a good pitcher and that is. He's no Price. And Price has two years to go before he is hitting free agency. The Rays are going to want more then those other trades and rightfully so.

[thewupk]

I will give you Buerhle. But there's not really any disputing that Matt Cain and Jon Lester are aces. If they aren't aces, then David Price isn't an ace and this entire discussion is moot.

I just don't consider a guy with a 4.03 ERA and a 3.84 FIP in the last 3 years an ace which is was Lester has done. Cain has been better with a 3.18 ERA and 3.38 FIP but he also pitches in a great pitchers park to make that ERA drop and includes his absolute best year in 2011 (the year they didnt win the WS) when he had a 2.88 ERA and 2.91 FIP. Ever other year he been a mid to high 3 in FIP. That just doesn't scream ace to me. Very good pitcher though. Price has had a 3.13 ERA and 3.14 FIP in that same span.

If Cain and Lester are aces then so is Minor. What he has done the last year and a half is on par with them.

[buck7580]

I have only seen Sims pitch in one minor league game, but I would hate to see him traded.

[Hawk]

Not all comparable. Sabathia was traded for a top prospect for half a season. Phillies didn't get much but the Mariners again got a top prospect for a half season of Lee. Jimenez is no ace either. He had one awesome season but other then that he's been a good pitcher and that is. He's no Price. And Price has two years to go before he is hitting free agency. The Rays are going to want more then those other trades and rightfully so.

Ubaldo was definitely being touted as an ace at the time of his trade.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/68...ians-prospects

First sentence: "In the middle of a surprising season, the Cleveland Indians are getting an ace rather than trading one away."

[The Chosen One]

I have only seen Sims pitch in one minor league game, but I would hate to see him traded.

I just watched Sims pitch on youtube and fell in love.

I can't decide who's delivery he reminds me of. Very simple though.