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Thread: Harold Baines to the HoF

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan Black View Post
    It seems to me this is a overreaction on a lot of people's part. He was put in by what was the Veteran's Committee.

    Sure he doesn't belong in the Hall of fame, but good on him for accomplishing something he shouldn't have.

    BTW this committee has Greg Maddux and Ozzie Smith on it.
    It is an accomplishment. Canít take it away. The gist is that there are more deserving candidates (IMHO). Thatís not wrong to call out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weso1 View Post
    This guy doesn't pass the sabermetric or the classic stat test. What a weird selection. Opens the door for people like JD Drew, Moises Alou, David Justice and Bobby Abreu to be selected. Eff it, nominate my favorite Brave Ron Gant for Hof.

    Baines has a lot of connections that helped him get in the hall

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    Well I know it won't work, but I caught 2 of his homeruns at Old Comiskey park, they are in some locker at home in southern Illinois, along with like about six other homerun and foul balls.

    If they don't sign them, it is not worth anything, just the MLB approval label and that is it.

    Dad did punch a person who tried to steal my ball (had a glove and he pushed me, a kid) and I caught it. Old Busch Stadium, Jack Clak went yard. A pastime in the 70's and 80's when tickets was 5 to 10 dollars and you can get a helmut, dog and a pepsi for 10 at most. I can remember I collected a lot of those plastic helmets, I had 20 of them because my dad was like why you want these? They change. I got the old Braves one, all of them, but they threw them away along with the baseball cards I had, all from the mid 70's. I cried. Hank Aaron, Pete Rose, many others and gone, just like that. Dad said that there is more cards underneath the house when they stored stuff when they expand (the house is big now). What, wait, but he said you want to be bit by black widows, recluse, copperheads, moccasins, be your guest, I, being 70+ years old is not going under there, but I bought stuff in the 50's and in a shoe boxes are there, never thought to retrieve them.

    Ain't going there, I am too old and I would die, if a snake bite me.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krgrecw View Post
    Baines has a lot of connections that helped him get in the hall
    Indeed. He is literally still employed by one of the people that voted for him. There is a reason he never got many votes by the writers. But sometimes in life it's about who you know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Does anyone still question why folks with real baseball knowledge no longer care about silly things like the MVP, HoF and RoY awards?
    Umm they're pretty prestigious. Especially to the players and fans with emotional ties to such players. That sort of elitist attitude is.... odd to be honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanieAntics View Post
    What they've done to Curt Schilling is absolutely shameful. You can think the guys a dick, you can think the guy has awful politics, you can think whatever about him. The fact remains that the dude is a 1st ballot hall of famer and they have done him so dirty.
    I agree with your general premise, but that's a little excessive. Curt deserves to be in, but he's hardly 1st ballot shoe-in worthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung31 View Post
    Thatís right. Harold Baines and his whopping 38.7 WAR has been elected to Cooperstown.

    For reference, Jason Heyward has already accumulated 35 WAR in his career. Outstanding.

    The Harold Baines All-Star Team. Those rough contemporaries who have a similar JAWS ranking as Baines (73rd) at their positions.


    P Dave Stieb
    C Mike Stanley
    1B Andres Galarraga
    2B Brett Boone
    SS Roy Smalley
    3B Melvin Mora
    LF Carlos Lee
    CF Lance Johnson
    RF Baines

    In other words, the Hall of Pretty Good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    I agree with your general premise, but that's a little excessive. Curt deserves to be in, but he's hardly 1st ballot shoe-in worthy.
    I disagree. He's as good as Smoltz who got in on the 1st ballot and deservedly so. Curt is also one of the best big game pitchers in baseball history. I would put him on par with Smoltz there as well. Curt just didn't have as many opportunities as Smoltz did. Schilling 79.8 fWAR is 20th best among pitchers. He's really really good. I think one thing that holds him back a bit from his public perception of greatness (same could be said for Smolz and some others honestly) is unfortunately playing in an era with 4 of the top 10 pitchers of all time (imo) in Maddux, Clemens, Johnson, and Pedro. Having those 4 pitching at the same time was unreal and you are always compared to your contemporaries.

    Put Schilling in this era and you'd have someone with the perception of Kershaw's regular season ability and Bumgardners playoff heroics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    I disagree. He's as good as Smoltz who got in on the 1st ballot and deservedly so. Curt is also one of the best big game pitchers in baseball history. I would put him on par with Smoltz there as well. Curt just didn't have as many opportunities as Smoltz did. Schilling 79.8 fWAR is 20th best among pitchers. He's really really good. I think one thing that holds him back a bit from his public perception of greatness (same could be said for Smolz and some others honestly) is unfortunately playing in an era with 4 of the top 10 pitchers of all time (imo) in Maddux, Clemens, Johnson, and Pedro. Having those 4 pitching at the same time was unreal and you are always compared to your contemporaries.

    Put Schilling in this era and you'd have someone with the perception of Kershaw's regular season ability and Bumgardners playoff heroics.
    I love Smoltz, but I do believe him getting elected on the 1st ballot had to do with the perception of being part of the big 3 and the novelty of being one of the best closers in the history of the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    I love Smoltz, but I do believe him getting elected on the 1st ballot had to do with the perception of being part of the big 3 and the novelty of being one of the best closers in the history of the game.
    No you are thinking of Glavine. Part of the big 3 and the novelty of winning 300 games. Smolt's 79.6 fwar (21st all-time) is good enough for a 1st ballot election.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    No you are thinking of Glavine. Part of the big 3 and the novelty of winning 300 games. Smolt's 79.6 fwar (21st all-time) is good enough for a 1st ballot election.

    Schilling and Mussina should both be in. It's pretty obvious that personalities do come into play in HOF politics. All other things considered equal, perceived good guys have a leg up over perceived oddballs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCarbo76 View Post
    Schilling and Mussina should both be in. It's pretty obvious that personalities do come into play in HOF politics. All other things considered equal, perceived good guys have a leg up over perceived oddballs.
    I agree. Now that Blyleven is in I'd say Mussina is the best pitcher not in the HOF besides Clemens of course. I'd even throw in a Kevin Brown as someone who should have gotten a lot more support. He is highly underrated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    No you are thinking of Glavine. Part of the big 3 and the novelty of winning 300 games. Smolt's 79.6 fwar (21st all-time) is good enough for a 1st ballot election.

    Glavine was slightly above average among existing Hall of Fame pitchers in JAWS and WAR at the time of his induction. He had the two Cy Youngs, the 6 top three Cy Young finishes, the 10 all stars, and the 300 wins. He fielded his position and handled the bat. Was consistent, played for winners, won big games, was strong in the postseason. Plus he was Tom Glavine.

    Wasn't a particularly close call.

    Glavine, Smoltz, Mussina, Schilling are probably the other four from that era I would have in. Schilling and Smoltz I see as pretty similar cases. Injures cost them both a lot of starts. I don't like Schilling much so it doesn't make me sad if they hold his wins against him.

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    That said Mussina is going to get in eventually. He missed it last year by 49 votes and has already gained 5 of those missing 49 so far and gained 2 votes from 1st time voters. I suspect if he misses it this year then next year he will get in. Looks like Roy Halladay is getting enough support to make it this year along with Rivera and Edgar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    I agree. Now that Blyleven is in I'd say Mussina is the best pitcher not in the HOF besides Clemens of course. I'd even throw in a Kevin Brown as someone who should have gotten a lot more support. He is highly underrated.
    Kevin Brown would be #9 for me as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    Glavine was slightly above average among existing Hall of Fame pitchers in JAWS and WAR at the time of his induction. He had the two Cy Youngs, the 6 top three Cy Young finishes, the 10 all stars, and the 300 wins. He fielded his position and handled the bat. Was consistent, played for winners, won big games, was strong in the postseason. Plus he was Tom Glavine.

    Wasn't a particularly close call.

    Glavine, Smoltz, Mussina, Schilling are probably the other four from that era I would have in. Schilling and Smoltz I see as pretty similar cases. Injures cost them both a lot of starts. I don't like Schilling much so it doesn't make me sad if they hold his wins against him.
    Glavine is a HOFer but I would question whether he is a 1st ballot HOFer. But in the end that designation doesn't really matter. You either belong or you don't and he does.

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    I've always loved watching Kevin Brown pitch in his prime. Didn't he have some ties to PEDs?

    Have to imagine if he wasn't an obvious 1st Balloter like Clemens despite PEDS, that he'd get some traction getting in.
    Forever Fredi


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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    That said Mussina is going to get in eventually. He missed it last year by 49 votes and has already gained 5 of those missing 49 so far and gained 2 votes from 1st time voters. I suspect if he misses it this year then next year he will get in. Looks like Roy Halladay is getting enough support to make it this year along with Rivera and Edgar.

    Halladay, Schilling, Smoltz all have the same kind of case, I think. You've let Smoltz in, should probably let the other two in.

    Halladay is in a different generation I think and unlike Schilling or Smoltz was maybe the best pitcher in baseball for his peak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    Halladay, Schilling, Smoltz all have the same kind of case, I think. You've let Smoltz in, should probably let the other two in.

    Halladay is in a different generation I think and unlike Schilling or Smoltz was maybe the best pitcher in baseball for his peak.

    Halladay is a HOFer and will benefit of not having any inner circle pitchers playing when he did in their prime. His career was from 98-13 and his 65.2 fWAR is the 2nd best in that time frame (next to Johnson who had retired in 09. Truly a freak).

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    No you are thinking of Glavine. Part of the big 3 and the novelty of winning 300 games. Smolt's 79.6 fwar (21st all-time) is good enough for a 1st ballot election.
    I disagree. Glavine had the counting stats and the dominance (2 Cy Youngs, 140 wins, 2.96 ERA from 91-98) that make him a clear cut above the other guys. He didn't age as well as Moose, Smoltzie, or Schilling, but health is perhaps the most valuable tool you can have and he simply didn't get injured and provided average or better production basically every year from 89-07.

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