Is Free Speech Under Attack in this Country?

[sturg33]

To be clear, removing something out of a curriculum is not "banning" it

[nsacpi]

A Tennessee school district has voted unanimously to ban a novel about the Holocaust because it contains foul language and an image of a nude woman.


A Tennessee school district has voted to ban the Holocaust graphic novel 'Maus'

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/27/10761...9Sz9zDOxY70rlI

It's a policy choice. Whether we consider it wise or not, a community is entitled to make policy of this sort through its elected representatives. Public decency laws are another example. What works for Berkeley might not work elsewhere. I wouldn't call it censorship. I wouldn't even call it tyranny AND oppression to require people to wear clothes in public spaces. Even though their freedom and sovereignty over their bodies are being abridged.

Otoh I do think it is deplorable that the influence of puritanical morality would make profanity or nudity of a woman grounds for banning a book.

I once left my copy of this book (which I highly recommend to one and all) in my hotel room in Beijing to protest against cultural prudishness. My hope is that some young person was duly corrupted.

[nsacpi]

Even though Vargas Llosa is one of the great writers of our time, I suspect a number of school districts would have trouble with his works. A long time ago, I remember finding some of Henry Miller's books at my high school library. If that hadn't happened, I might not have strayed from the straight and narrow.

From goodreads:

Don Rigoberto - by day a grey insurance executive, by night a pornographer and sexual enthusiast - misses Lucrecia, his estranged second wife. The pair separated following a sexual encounter between Lucrecia and Alfonso, Rigoberto's son. To compensate for her absence, Rigoberto fills his notebooks with memories, fantasies and unsent letters. Meanwhile, Alfonso visits Lucrecia, determined to win her love.

In The Notebooks of Don Rigoberto, Mario Vargas Llosa keeps the reader guessing which episodes are real and which issue from Rigoberto's imagination. The novel, a wonderful mix of reality and fantasy, is sexy, funny, disquieting, and unfailingly compelling.

If you enjoyed The Notebooks of Don Rigoberto, you might also like Mario Vargas Llosa's In Praise of the Stepmother.

[sturg33]

"liberals"

[mqt]

"liberals"

I find the graph on the left pretty ****ing concerning.

[The Chosen One]

It is curious.

And then you have these conservative districts banning books. If you polled that it would probably be a reverse graph.


I don't have an issue with tech companies filtering what they want. That's not a free speech issue. But yes I do have an issue with government legislation.

[thethe]

Books being removed because of vulgarity is different than removing someone from the modern day public square.

I hope that this continues to be the counter argument. Every state will flip like VA before long.

[The Chosen One]

Books being removed because of vulgarity is different than removing someone from the modern day public square.

I hope that this continues to be the counter argument. Every state will flip like VA before long.

If you understand history, these confederate monuments in many cases were placed a hundred years after the civil war. Many were erected during the civil rights movement to show black people that Confederate Pride still runs wild.

They should have never ever been erected in the first place. The only people who want them up are people who still maintain the civil war was not about slavery.

Banning books because conservative karen moms are afraid of literature... yeah definitely not the same thing.

Banning books like To Kill A Mockingbird. Oh the vulgarity.

[thethe]

If you understand history, these confederate monuments in many cases were placed a hundred years after the civil war. Many were erected during the civil rights movement to show black people that Confederate Pride still runs wild.

They should have never ever been erected in the first place. The only people who want them up are people who still maintain the civil war was not about slavery.

Banning books because conservative karen moms are afraid of literature... yeah definitely not the same thing.

Banning books like To Kill A Mockingbird. Oh the vulgarity.

Please SAV. Please continue on....

[sturg33]

It is curious.

And then you have these conservative districts banning books. If you polled that it would probably be a reverse graph.


I don't have an issue with tech companies filtering what they want. That's not a free speech issue. But yes I do have an issue with government legislation.

An illiberal counter response if inevitable

[Tapate50]

Banning or removing from curriculum ?

[sturg33]

I find the graph on the left pretty ****ing concerning.

It is what your party has become. It started in the universities and has since spread in corporate and media as those kids have graduated and taken things to the real world.

It is a monumental threat to freedom in this country

[sturg33]

This is a liberal problem in general. They are closer to communists than they are liberals

[sturg33]

Ilya tweeted something with poor phrasing.

Profusely apologized. now faces being fired for his view. These are future lawyers of this country.

[nsacpi]

It is curious.

And then you have these conservative districts banning books. If you polled that it would probably be a reverse graph.


I don't have an issue with tech companies filtering what they want. That's not a free speech issue. But yes I do have an issue with government legislation.

It is cultural prudishness and puritanical morality. Those kinds of things are pretty rampant in parts of the country. It should not be surprising or even objectionable that local government makes policy that reflects local sensibilities. The constitution doesn't say a school district has no choice about what goes into its curriculum and libraries. And I have confidence that the students from those communities will in due course be corrupted by the literature and ideas being banned, the best efforts of their parents and school districts notwithstanding. Btw sales of Maus are booming. That's how it goes. Ban something and it becomes a bestseller. Hopefully, someone will ban my novel. I'm trying to pack as much objectionable content into it as possible. Patricide. Infanticide. Incest. You name it. I'm even planning a racy cover involving a man and his horse.

[thethe]

We are taking back the country one town at a time until the whole nation is great again.

[Jaw]

If you understand history, these confederate monuments in many cases were placed a hundred years after the civil war. Many were erected during the civil rights movement to show black people that Confederate Pride still runs wild.

They should have never ever been erected in the first place. The only people who want them up are people who still maintain the civil war was not about slavery.

Banning books because conservative karen moms are afraid of literature... yeah definitely not the same thing.

Banning books like To Kill A Mockingbird. Oh the vulgarity.

The Robert E. Lee Monument in Richmond, Virginia, was the first installation on Monument Avenue in 1890, and would ultimately be the last monument removed from the site.[3] Before its removal on September 8, 2021,[4] the monument honored Confederate Civil War General Robert E. Lee, depicted on a horse atop a large marble base that stood over 60-feet tall. Constructed in France and shipped to Virginia, it remained the largest installation on Monument Avenue for over a century; it was first listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 2007 and the Virginia Landmarks Register in 2006.[5]



When the monuments were constructed had absolutely nothing to do with whether the mob wanted them torn down. That was just a media talking point to give you guys some cover for siding with them. There was no more proper place for a Lee monument than where it was, no more proper time to construct it than when it was constructed. History hurt the mob's feelings, and schools have taught them what to think instead of the ability to reason. They can see so nuance, no shades of gray, only black and white. It's pathetic.

[Jaw]

I need to amend my explanation for the mob's reasons for destruction of historical landmarks. For the average members it was their tender feelings, for the leaders, rabble rousers, community organizers, or whatever you want to call them, it was just about power. Here's a pretty obvious tell.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/robert-...-down-artwork/


The Charlottesville City Council decided on Monday to give a statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee to a local heritage center. The statue, which is bronze, will be melted down and converted into new artwork.

The city council debated Monday whether to sell the statue, gift it or keep it. Ultimately, the group voted 4-0 to donate it to the Jefferson School African American Heritage Center, which is located in Charlottesville.

In its offer, submitted to the city council in October, the center said that it would melt down the statue and create "a new work of public art that expresses the City's values of inclusivity and racial justice."

[Jaw]

Even though Vargas Llosa is one of the great writers of our time, I suspect a number of school districts would have trouble with his works. A long time ago, I remember finding some of Henry Miller's books at my high school library. If that hadn't happened, I might not have strayed from the straight and narrow.

From goodreads:

Don Rigoberto - by day a grey insurance executive, by night a pornographer and sexual enthusiast - misses Lucrecia, his estranged second wife. The pair separated following a sexual encounter between Lucrecia and Alfonso, Rigoberto's son. To compensate for her absence, Rigoberto fills his notebooks with memories, fantasies and unsent letters. Meanwhile, Alfonso visits Lucrecia, determined to win her love.

In The Notebooks of Don Rigoberto, Mario Vargas Llosa keeps the reader guessing which episodes are real and which issue from Rigoberto's imagination. The novel, a wonderful mix of reality and fantasy, is sexy, funny, disquieting, and unfailingly compelling.

If you enjoyed The Notebooks of Don Rigoberto, you might also like Mario Vargas Llosa's In Praise of the Stepmother.

That's a helluva windmill you're charging at Mr Quixote. Why would any parent want pornography in a children's library?

[57Brave]

The Robert E. Lee Monument in Richmond, Virginia, was the first installation on Monument Avenue in 1890, and would ultimately be the last monument removed from the site.[3] Before its removal on September 8, 2021,[4] the monument honored Confederate Civil War General Robert E. Lee, depicted on a horse atop a large marble base that stood over 60-feet tall. Constructed in France and shipped to Virginia, it remained the largest installation on Monument Avenue for over a century; it was first listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 2007 and the Virginia Landmarks Register in 2006.[5]



When the monuments were constructed had absolutely nothing to do with whether the mob wanted them torn down. That was just a media talking point to give you guys some cover for siding with them. There was no more proper place for a Lee monument than where it was, no more proper time to construct it than when it was constructed. History hurt the mob's feelings, and schools have taught them what to think instead of the ability to reason. They can see so nuance, no shades of gray, only black and white. It's pathetic.

by that logic a statue of Stokley Carmichael next to it would be appropriate.
he headed an organization that fed children before school --- which in mine and many eyes is far more significant than a failed militarian

How long before y'all start preaching from the Bible of the Flat Earth ?
That is a rhetorical question