Is Free Speech Under Attack in this Country?

[sturg33]

the magic word is de-escalate

it takes time, persistence...the bad actors in Portland want an escalation...so they are going to keep damaging property...arrest them where possible but mainly the focus should be on de-escalating the situation

we've seen this movie before...bad actors try to hijack a popular movement...at some point the people who support the popular movement need to go home and distance themselves from the bad actors

They've been at it for 2 months.

Local authorities chose to stand down.

What next?

[goldfly]

Maybe

Just maybe

And hear me out

Listen to them and make appropriate changes that are needed


I know

Radical thought

[nsacpi]

They've been at it for 2 months.

Local authorities chose to stand down.

What next?

i leave that to the local authorities...they know their own communities best

the antifans want an escalation...very poorly chosen one is giving them what they want...it is a lot easier to bust windows and get away with it from within a big crowd than from within a small crowd

there are a lot of problems in life not amenable to immediate solution...patience and persistence is required

[sturg33]

i leave that to the local authorities...they know their own communities best

the antifans want an escalation

there are a lot of problems in life not amenable to immediate solution...patience and persistence is required

So local citizens living in a war zone is fine indefinitely?

[sturg33]

Maybe

Just maybe

And hear me out

Listen to them and make appropriate changes that are needed


I know

Radical thought

What are they asking for

[nsacpi]

So local citizens living in a war zone is fine indefinitely?

i don't have an end date for you or for the people in portland

i suspect that an approach prioritizing an end date will have unfortunate consequences...more unfortunate than what we have seen so far...which might be why local authorities have tried to be patient

[sturg33]

i don't have an end date for you or for the people in portland

i suspect that an approach prioritizing an end date will have unfortunate consequences...more unfortunate than what we have seen so far...which might be why local authorities have tried to be patient

Yeah.

I think it's easy to throw stones here. And the approach isn't great. But letting an American city be destroyed forever is not a good option either.

[nsacpi]

But letting an American city be destroyed forever is not a good option either.

i don't think anyone is advocating that...it is not a serious argument...more of a strawman than anything else...the occupy movement seemed to go on forever in oakland...i was living there at the time...the damage to small businesses downtown was bad...antifans had their party...but the local government gradually got things under control...we all wished they could have done it faster...but faster is not always better in these situations

btw George Bush sent federal forces into LA after the Rodney King riots...but he did so in coordination with local leaders...if we had someone in the white house who had an ounce of moral authority we would have some better alternatives...it is bad enough having to deal with antifans...having a bad actor as president is a self-inflicted injury that we all need to reflect upon

[sturg33]

i don't think anyone is advocating that...it is not a serious argument...more of a strawman than anything else...the occupy movement seemed to go on forever in oakland...i was living there at the time...the damage to small businesses downtown was bad...antifans had their party...but the local government gradually got things under control...we all wished they could have done it faster...but faster is not always better in these situations

btw George Bush sent federal forces into LA after the Rodney King riots...but he did so in coordination with local leaders...if we had someone in the white house who had an ounce of moral authority we would have some better alternatives...it is bad enough having to deal with antifans...having a bad actor as president is a self-inflicted injury that we all need to reflect upon

I agree that Trump is the wrong guy to fix this. But local leaders refuse to work with him bc OMB. So it's a rock and a hard place.

My other question is why are there federal buildings in Portland? Who should be I. Charge of protecting them?

[nsacpi]

I agree that Trump is the wrong guy to fix this. But local leaders refuse to work with him bc OMB. So it's a rock and a hard place.

My other question is why are there federal buildings in Portland? Who should be I. Charge of protecting them?

It is generally a local government responsibility to protect property, regardless of ownership. I believe Portland is trying to find the best way to do this under difficult circumstances. Under normal circumstances they might seek federal help as LA did during the Rodney King riots.

[sturg33]

It is generally a local government responsibility to protect property, regardless of ownership. I believe Portland is trying to find the best way to do this under difficult circumstances. Under normal circumstances they might seek federal help as LA did during the Rodney King riots.

We live in different times. Local leaders are scared to offend people and are telling their forces to stand down. This emboldens the rioters and it continues.

[nsacpi]

Well I know what will cause it to flare up in a bunch of cities other than Portland. And that would be to have a provocative federal presence in those cities similar to the one currently in Portland.

[sturg33]

Well I know what will cause it to flare up in a bunch of cities other than Portland. And that would be to have a provocative federal presence in those cities similar to the one currently in Portland.

Agreed. It's a good way to bait Trump.

We saw what happened Seattle. The mayor said it was the summer of love in order to spite the OM... She let it go on. 4 people got shot... she let it go on.

Only when she was personally threatened did she end it.

[nsacpi]

[nsacpi]

Antifa in action

[thethe]

i leave that to the local authorities...they know their own communities best

the antifans want an escalation...very poorly chosen one is giving them what they want...it is a lot easier to bust windows and get away with it from within a big crowd than from within a small crowd

there are a lot of problems in life not amenable to immediate solution...patience and persistence is required

AntiFa will not like what they get. You can continue to act like America isn't sick of what is going on and welcome the arrest of prople breaking the law.

[57Brave]

Remind me again how many antifa charged over this incident

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A white husband and wife were charged with felony unlawful use of a weapon for displaying guns during a racial injustice protest outside their mansion.

St. Louis' top prosecutor on Monday charged a white husband and wife with felony unlawful use of a weapon for displaying guns during a racial injustice protest outside their mansion.

Mark and Patricia McCloskey, who are both personal injury attorneys in their 60s, also face a misdemeanor charge of fourth-degree assault.

Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner told The Associated Press that the McCloskeys' actions risked creating a violent situation during an otherwise nonviolent protest.

"It is illegal to wave weapons in a threatening manner — that is unlawful in the city of St. Louis," Gardner said.

An attorney for the couple, Joel Schwartz, in a statement called the decision to charge "disheartening as I unequivocally believe no crime was committed."

Supporters of the McCloskeys said they were legally defending their $1.15 million home.

Gardner is recommending a diversion program such as community service rather than jail time if the McCloskeys are convicted. Typically, class E felonies could result in up to four years in prison.

Several Republican leaders have condemned Gardner's investigation, including Donald Trump, Missouri Gov. Mike Parson, and Sen. Josh Hawley, who has urged Attorney General William Barr to undertake a civil rights investigation of Gardner. Parson said in a radio interview Friday that he would likely pardon the couple if they were charged and convicted.

Gardner said Trump, Parson, and others are attacking her to distract from "their failed approach to the COVID-19 pandemic" and other issues.

St. Louis, like many cities across the country, has seen demonstrations in the weeks since George Floyd's death in Minneapolis, and the McCloskeys' home was initially incidental to the demonstration on June 28. Several hundred people were marching to the home of Democratic Mayor Lyda Krewson, a few blocks from the McCloskeys' home. Krewson had angered activists by reading on Facebook Live the names and addresses of some who had called for defunding police.

The McCloskeys live on a private street called Portland Place. A police report said the couple heard a loud commotion and saw a large group of people break an iron gate marked with "No Trespassing" and "Private Street" signs. A protest leader, the Rev. Darryl Gray, said the gate was open and that protesters didn't damage it.

Mark McCloskey confronted protesters with a semi-automatic rifle, screamed at them and pointed the weapon at them, according to a probable statement. The statement said Patricia McCloskey then emerged with a semi-automatic handgun, yelling at protesters to "go" and pointing it at them. No shots were fired.

Photos emerged as memes on both sides of the gun debate.

Trump spoke by phone with Parson last week to criticize Gardner's investigation. Parson, when he was in the Legislature, co-authored Missouri's "castle doctrine" law that justifies deadly force for those who are defending their homes from intruders. He has said that the McCloskeys "had every right to protect their property."

Gardner declined to discuss why she decided the castle doctrine didn't apply.

Schwartz said the McCloskeys "support the First Amendment right of every citizen to have their voice and opinion heard. This right, however, must be balanced with the Second Amendment and Missouri law, which entitle each of us to protect our home and family from potential threats."

Gardner, St. Louis' first Black circuit attorney, has been at odds with some in the St. Louis establishment since her election in 2016. Most notably, her office charged then-Gov. Eric Greitens with felony invasion of privacy in 2018 for allegedly taking a compromising photo of a woman during an extramarital affair. The charge was eventually dropped, but Greitens resigned in June 2018.

A private investigator Gardner hired to investigate the claims against Greitens was later indicted for perjury for allegedly lying during a deposition. His case is pending.

Gardner also has butted heads with police leaders, especially after she developed an "exclusion list" of more than two dozen officers who were barred from serving as primary witnesses in criminal cases over what Gardner called credibility concerns. The move angered Police Chief John Hayden, who also is Black.

In January, Gardner filed a federal lawsuit accusing the city, the police union and others of a coordinated and racist conspiracy aimed at forcing her out of office. The lawsuit also accused "entrenched interests" of intentionally impeding her efforts to change racist practices.

Several Black leaders in St. Louis have expressed support for Gardner, including Democratic Rep. William Lacy Clay, who has said protesters "should never be subject to the threat of deadly force, whether by individuals or by the police."

[sturg33]

Another example of the left losing its mine

[goldfly]

I’m old enough to remember the nuclear meltdown the Republican Party would have if President Obama said anything even close to this level

[thethe]

Remind me again how many antifa charged over this incident

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////






A white husband and wife were charged with felony unlawful use of a weapon for displaying guns during a racial injustice protest outside their mansion.

St. Louis' top prosecutor on Monday charged a white husband and wife with felony unlawful use of a weapon for displaying guns during a racial injustice protest outside their mansion.

Mark and Patricia McCloskey, who are both personal injury attorneys in their 60s, also face a misdemeanor charge of fourth-degree assault.

Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner told The Associated Press that the McCloskeys' actions risked creating a violent situation during an otherwise nonviolent protest.

"It is illegal to wave weapons in a threatening manner — that is unlawful in the city of St. Louis," Gardner said.

An attorney for the couple, Joel Schwartz, in a statement called the decision to charge "disheartening as I unequivocally believe no crime was committed."

Supporters of the McCloskeys said they were legally defending their $1.15 million home.

Gardner is recommending a diversion program such as community service rather than jail time if the McCloskeys are convicted. Typically, class E felonies could result in up to four years in prison.

Several Republican leaders have condemned Gardner's investigation, including Donald Trump, Missouri Gov. Mike Parson, and Sen. Josh Hawley, who has urged Attorney General William Barr to undertake a civil rights investigation of Gardner. Parson said in a radio interview Friday that he would likely pardon the couple if they were charged and convicted.

Gardner said Trump, Parson, and others are attacking her to distract from "their failed approach to the COVID-19 pandemic" and other issues.

St. Louis, like many cities across the country, has seen demonstrations in the weeks since George Floyd's death in Minneapolis, and the McCloskeys' home was initially incidental to the demonstration on June 28. Several hundred people were marching to the home of Democratic Mayor Lyda Krewson, a few blocks from the McCloskeys' home. Krewson had angered activists by reading on Facebook Live the names and addresses of some who had called for defunding police.

The McCloskeys live on a private street called Portland Place. A police report said the couple heard a loud commotion and saw a large group of people break an iron gate marked with "No Trespassing" and "Private Street" signs. A protest leader, the Rev. Darryl Gray, said the gate was open and that protesters didn't damage it.

Mark McCloskey confronted protesters with a semi-automatic rifle, screamed at them and pointed the weapon at them, according to a probable statement. The statement said Patricia McCloskey then emerged with a semi-automatic handgun, yelling at protesters to "go" and pointing it at them. No shots were fired.

Photos emerged as memes on both sides of the gun debate.

Trump spoke by phone with Parson last week to criticize Gardner's investigation. Parson, when he was in the Legislature, co-authored Missouri's "castle doctrine" law that justifies deadly force for those who are defending their homes from intruders. He has said that the McCloskeys "had every right to protect their property."

Gardner declined to discuss why she decided the castle doctrine didn't apply.

Schwartz said the McCloskeys "support the First Amendment right of every citizen to have their voice and opinion heard. This right, however, must be balanced with the Second Amendment and Missouri law, which entitle each of us to protect our home and family from potential threats."

Gardner, St. Louis' first Black circuit attorney, has been at odds with some in the St. Louis establishment since her election in 2016. Most notably, her office charged then-Gov. Eric Greitens with felony invasion of privacy in 2018 for allegedly taking a compromising photo of a woman during an extramarital affair. The charge was eventually dropped, but Greitens resigned in June 2018.

A private investigator Gardner hired to investigate the claims against Greitens was later indicted for perjury for allegedly lying during a deposition. His case is pending.

Gardner also has butted heads with police leaders, especially after she developed an "exclusion list" of more than two dozen officers who were barred from serving as primary witnesses in criminal cases over what Gardner called credibility concerns. The move angered Police Chief John Hayden, who also is Black.

In January, Gardner filed a federal lawsuit accusing the city, the police union and others of a coordinated and racist conspiracy aimed at forcing her out of office. The lawsuit also accused "entrenched interests" of intentionally impeding her efforts to change racist practices.

Several Black leaders in St. Louis have expressed support for Gardner, including Democratic Rep. William Lacy Clay, who has said protesters "should never be subject to the threat of deadly force, whether by individuals or by the police."

Just rhe hand of soros here. Nothing to see