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Thread: 116th Congress

  1. #601
    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions.” Samuel Adams

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

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    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...t-it-will-cost


    The Green New Deal is, to repeat, a nonbonding resolution. Passing it will cost

    approximately zero dollars and zero cents;

    it exists as a launching point for lawmaker discussions on how to get to a less polluting,

    less drought-and-famine-dominated future

    . But even this is met with hair-pulling alarm, with warnings of socialism and revolution

    and mutters of suspicious foreign "globalism" slithering into your crawlspace in the dead

    of night, because there's not a damn thing that any non-conservative can propose,

    in any arena, that will not get the exact same treatment.
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

  3. #603
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

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    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    ‏Verified account @AOC
    54m54 minutes ago

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Retweeted CSPAN

    This, right here, is a problem.

    Institutions can engage in unlimited financing of fossil fuels, building unstable pipelines + reaping profits, but when the bill comes to clean up oil spills & fix damages - they can conveniently kick the can.

    So, who will pay for climate change?

    .................................................. .............

    Hve made the same argument aimed at profits gained by the weapons industry.
    At what point is the profiteer responsible ?
    Last edited by 57Brave; 03-12-2019 at 06:23 PM.
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

  5. #605
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    Sea walls will have to go up as seas rise. Wildfires to put out. Roads repaved. Nascent technology to explore.

    Electrical grids replaced. It’s too late for us to not have to deal w/ the impact of climate change.

    At this point we shouldn’t be debating IF we do it, it’s how.

    The difference here is that we *already know* abt climate change. We know that more

    fossil fuels will harm us. Banks know. Fossil fuel cos know. Gov + politicians know.

    It’s not an accident. It’s cause+effect. We knew DAPL would leak.

    And we know the next gen is in danger.
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

  6. #606
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    Daniel Medina
    ‏Verified account @dmedin11

    Daniel Medina Retweeted CSPAN

    As a reporter on #DAPL beat from beginning of protests,
    I often spoke to oil/gas industry people. When I would ask them
    how building pipelines was financially viable in an age of diminishing returns,
    none seemed to care. Because, as they told me, the banks financing them didn’t.

    With the way things are structured now, if the banks don’t care, no one cares.

    They’re simply not incentivized to - no matter the damage to people, families, and the environment.

    We mostly address issues after the damage is done. But we can’t afford that w/ climate.
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

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    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    and this exchnge:



    Marvel Marisa Murphy
    ‏Verified account @RodeoGirlsMarv

    Marvel Marisa Murphy Retweeted CSPAN

    So using her own logic... Hypothetically, if @AOC made a drink while bartending,
    then served it to a person, who then killed a family of 5 while driving drunk,
    she should then be held accountable for the incident, right?
    Bartenders beware, she could be coming after you next!!




    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    ‏Verified account @AOC
    3m3 minutes ago

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Retweeted Marvel Marisa Murphy

    Actually, in NYC if you’re a bartender and knowingly over-serve to someone,
    you *ARE* liable for things they do after they leave the bar,
    because you knowingly put them at risk for $.

    Its called the Dram Shop Act. It’s a big reason why bartenders cut people off.
    And it works.



    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    ‏Verified account @AOC
    5m5 minutes ago

    The key here is in the advance knowledge. When you

    *knowingly* do something that you know *in advance*

    will do harm, and do it anyway, you open yourself up.

    Companies *know in advance* that climate change will

    get worse if we keep growing fossil fuel consumption and production.
    Last edited by 57Brave; 03-12-2019 at 06:49 PM.
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

  8. #608
    I <3 Ron Paul + gilesfan sturg33's Avatar
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    This is the level of stupidity the left is fawning all over for


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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    How stupid thinking corporations should be liable for not doing their job right. By gawd don't people realize America no one takes responsibility for their actions.
    AJ does all the other things just as well if not better than Mac - zbhargrove

    I don't think Nolan Ryan should be a poster child for mechanics - SAV

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    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    yeah, I thought "cause we don't operate the pipeline" was pretty weak too.
    As if to say, "we just make the profit"


    " who ------ me ? !!!! "
    ................

    so tell me, who will pay for the clean-up ?

    and are you of the opinion that those making the profits once paid, wash their hands of the whole affair and bear no responsibility ?

    .....................

    remind me again about spending cuts and how over taxed we are
    Last edited by 57Brave; 03-12-2019 at 10:10 PM.
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

  11. #611
    I <3 Ron Paul + gilesfan sturg33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    How stupid thinking corporations should be liable for not doing their job right. By gawd don't people realize America no one takes responsibility for their actions.
    Lol wut?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    yeah, I thought "cause we don't operate the pipeline" was pretty weak too.
    As if to say, "we just make the profit"


    " who ------ me ? !!!! "
    ................

    so tell me, who will pay for the clean-up ?

    and are you of the opinion that those making the profits once paid, wash their hands of the whole affair and bear no responsibility ?

    .....................

    remind me again about spending cuts and how over taxed we are
    Now wait a second.

    I bank with Wells Fargo. I give them money in exchange for interest.

    Then they take my money and lend it to pipeline operator.

    By golly, now I'm responsible for paying for the cleanup!

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    annie fofani
    ‏ @anniefofani
    8h8 hours ago
    Replying to @Len_SCA @alexisgoldstein and

    payments on the loan. that the corporations they made the loans to would continue to make those payments from the oil profits. if those corps were held accountable for the environmental damage they could go bankrupt and not pay. but funders should also be held accountable too.

    1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    Len M.
    ‏ @Len_SCA
    7h7 hours ago

    Paying for cleanup is secondary to prevention. The damage done to the environment from a spill cannot necessarily be undone. Therefore the risk is not the cost of cleanup, it is a separate risk that should be assessed and Wells Fargo be held accountable.

    2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    Len M.
    ‏ @Len_SCA
    6h6 hours ago

    In addition what really is the monetary risk? Probably negligible while the environmental risk is monumental. Therefore Wells Fargo is only calculating monetary risk as would be expected. Who is taking on the environmental risk? Only the public and we have no say.

    1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    annie fofani
    ‏ @anniefofani
    6h6 hours ago

    yeah, currently the earth and the people just get screwed. banks only care about monetary risk, they don't care about the environment. but laws can be changed to hold them accountable. and the public does have a say through our congressional representatives.
    1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    annie fofani
    ‏ @anniefofani
    6h6 hours ago

    this is why, as i9 mentioned earlier it's the cost of being accountable for cleanup that motivates their team who assesses environmental impact to start taking prevention into consideration when assessing risk.
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

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    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    I feel this a conversation that is long overdue



    MyCatThinksYou'reDumb
    ‏ @mycatis2cool4u
    6h6 hours ago

    Hmm, banks don't make high risk loans of this size
    as they discuss loans made for a high risk project. Got it.
    The whole point of her questioning involves risk to taxpayers.
    Kind of like how BP's oil spill cost taxpayers over $10 billion.



    and who else profited from the loans to BP? I personally see profiteers as responsible as BP themselves

    As I see the arms industry fiduciary -ly complicit in mass shootings.
    People are making money off of these programmed lapses in judgement
    Last edited by 57Brave; 03-12-2019 at 10:39 PM.
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Now wait a second.

    I bank with Wells Fargo. I give them money in exchange for interest.

    Then they take my money and lend it to pipeline operator.

    By golly, now I'm responsible for paying for the cleanup!
    yes, if you profited from this instance of societal negligence , you are responsible
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

  16. #616
    I <3 Ron Paul + gilesfan sturg33's Avatar
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    The good part about AOC is she has made so many people go to bat to defend her stupidity.

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    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    ‏Verified account @AOC
    10h10 hours ago

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Retweeted Alexis Goldstein

    The CEO of Wells Fargo said they chose to finance the unstable Dakota Access Pipeline

    over Standing Rock Sioux objections, because the bank determined it was “worth the risk.”

    To whom?

    #DAPL has leaked at least 5x. And we, the public, are left to pay for cleanup+destroyed land.
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

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    Telling when political factions faced with conversation on climate change and income inequality are reduced to "AOC is stupid"
    At some point if they want a seat at the table will have to contribute to the conversation to survive. (Amash ? )
    And sure, bring out your "data". But, understand how data is used as a tool and remember you cant drive a nail with a screwdriver
    ....................

    Since January the discussion has been driven by new House members . Including that eye patch guy.
    Last edited by 57Brave; 03-13-2019 at 05:57 AM.
    “Reject the logic that says someone else’s gain necessitates my loss, and that my gain must come at the cost of another person.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    This is the level of stupidity the left is fawning all over for

    I think your penis shrinks every time you hear a smart, powerful woman speak.
    FF - BB, BB, 2B, HR, 2B, HR, 1B, BB, BB, 1B, BB, BB, HR

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Now wait a second.

    I bank with Wells Fargo. I give them money in exchange for interest.

    Then they take my money and lend it to pipeline operator.

    By golly, now I'm responsible for paying for the cleanup!
    I'm not saying Wells Fargo should be responsible, but I don't think responsibility for any of Wells Fargo's actions (or inactions) would fall on the bank's consumers. You didn't know what the Wells Fargo executives were going to do with your money and that erects a pretty solid wall against legal action extending to you or any other costumers. I've got some banking business to Wells Fargo and I probably won't move it, but that company has shown itself to be run by idiots over the past decade. I would say they are simply crooked, but I don't think the folks running the company are smart enough to consciously be evil.

    As for AOC, I don't agree with her here on the responsibility aspect, but I think she does show how big companies get together to do things and don't really give a f*ck about the consequences to anyone else in the process.

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