2020 Field

[goldfly]

Yeah, you should send your kids to the guy who brags about walking in on them naked

Lol

[nsacpi]

i thought the best speech tonight was by George Floyd's brother...the politicians were boring

[Runnin]

i thought the best speech tonight was by George Floyd's brother...the politicians were boring

I didn't think Michelle's opening was very strong. I found it whiny, almost pleading, and aimed directly at the BLM crowd, but maybe that was the target. I would've much preferred her husband.

[cajunrevenge]

Bidens phone calls with Ukranian President Poreshenko.

[striker42]

Apparently Trump responded to Michelle Obama that he wouldn't be in the White House if it wasn't for the job her husband did. I have to agree though probably for different reasons. Obama had a tendency to ignore, marginalize, or be dismissive towards those who disagreed with him. As a result you had large swaths of the country who felt left out of the economic recovery and as though they were under attack. After 8 years of being told they were backwards and on the wrong side of history, Trump just had to come to them and tell them they're important and shouldn't be ignored and people flocked to him.

You can disagree with whether the people who put Trump in office had a legitimate complaint or not, but the fact remains that they felt marginalized and ignored and so became perfect breeding ground for a demagogue. I was worried Trump's 4 years would result in the same for the left and with Bernie Sanders it was too close for comfort.

[nsacpi]

Apparently Trump responded to Michelle Obama that he wouldn't be in the White House if it wasn't for the job her husband did. I have to agree though probably for different reasons. Obama had a tendency to ignore, marginalize, or be dismissive towards those who disagreed with him. As a result you had large swaths of the country who felt left out of the economic recovery and as though they were under attack. After 8 years of being told they were backwards and on the wrong side of history, Trump just had to come to them and tell them they're important and shouldn't be ignored and people flocked to him.

You can disagree with whether the people who put Trump in office had a legitimate complaint or not, but the fact remains that they felt marginalized and ignored and so became perfect breeding ground for a demagogue. I was worried Trump's 4 years would result in the same for the left and with Bernie Sanders it was too close for comfort.

hurt feelings ==> making dumb choices

that's not a bad summary of what happened

[thethe]

hurt feelings ==> making dumb choices

that's not a bad summary of what happened

More peace in the Middle East.

Clearly a bad choice.

[Runnin]

Apparently Trump responded to Michelle Obama that he wouldn't be in the White House if it wasn't for the job her husband did. I have to agree though probably for different reasons. Obama had a tendency to ignore, marginalize, or be dismissive towards those who disagreed with him. As a result you had large swaths of the country who felt left out of the economic recovery and as though they were under attack. After 8 years of being told they were backwards and on the wrong side of history, Trump just had to come to them and tell them they're important and shouldn't be ignored and people flocked to him.
.

I've heard this before but I simply don't remember that and think it's an attempt to re-write history. Obama made every effort in the early days of his first term to meet Reps halfway and they would have none of it. His problem, the way I remember it, was he expected more input from Reps and they didn't want to help him because they did not want him to have any successes. Obama even let the Wall Street crooks have their big bonus and skate responsibility. He never implied that they were not important or should be ignored.

But I could be wrong. If there is any specific event or speech you're recall, I'd like to hear it.

[acesfull86]

Apparently Trump responded to Michelle Obama that he wouldn't be in the White House if it wasn't for the job her husband did. I have to agree though probably for different reasons. Obama had a tendency to ignore, marginalize, or be dismissive towards those who disagreed with him. As a result you had large swaths of the country who felt left out of the economic recovery and as though they were under attack. After 8 years of being told they were backwards and on the wrong side of history, Trump just had to come to them and tell them they're important and shouldn't be ignored and people flocked to him.

You can disagree with whether the people who put Trump in office had a legitimate complaint or not, but the fact remains that they felt marginalized and ignored and so became perfect breeding ground for a demagogue. I was worried Trump's 4 years would result in the same for the left and with Bernie Sanders it was too close for comfort.

Agreed. And it's why if I had to pick between Biden & Trump and wasn't allowed to vote 3rd party or sit out, I'd go with Biden. Because if a second straight "moderate" dem loses to Trump, the loony wing of the dem party will certainly be emboldened.

[nsacpi]

I've heard this before but I simply don't remember that and think it's an attempt to re-write history. Obama made every effort in the early days of his first term to meet Reps halfway and they would have none of it. His problem, the way I remember it, was he expected more input from Reps and they didn't want to help him because they did not want him to have any successes. Obama even let the Wall Street crooks have their big bonus and skate responsibility. He never implied that they were not important or should be ignored.

But I could be wrong. If there is any specific event or speech you're recall, I'd like to hear it.

I think Obama was part of it but a relatively small part. There is an entire group of white people who felt threatened, marginalized, disrespected (choose whichever word works for you) by what was happening both in wider society and in their lives. Close to home, you had the whole thing having to do with opioids and the pandemic of "deaths of despair." Life expectancy has been falling for groups of white people. That is a fairly extreme thing and not surprisingly produced a political reaction.

Within wider society, I think many (I'm going to be careful not to say most, but I think many can't be disputed) people felt uncomfortable with the browning of America. So demagogic appeals on immigration resonated. The good news here is that the analysis shows that whites who have more contact with people of color have less of those feelings. They are most intense, ironically, in counties where there has been the smallest influx of black and brown people. But there is a confounding issue here. The counties with the smallest influx of new people (whether black, brown or white) happen to be the ones most left behind in terms of education and economic growth. The other point to keep in mind is that rural America has been losing population for a very long time. So that in and of itself can't be an explanation for the current resentments.

One last point. A lot is made of very poorly chosen one's support among people who have less education. To me the more interesting source of support are the white college-educated men. White college-educated women never were big fans. But white college-educated men have been a big part of his base.

[cajunrevenge]

I've heard this before but I simply don't remember that and think it's an attempt to re-write history. Obama made every effort in the early days of his first term to meet Reps halfway and they would have none of it. His problem, the way I remember it, was he expected more input from Reps and they didn't want to help him because they did not want him to have any successes. Obama even let the Wall Street crooks have their big bonus and skate responsibility. He never implied that they were not important or should be ignored.

But I could be wrong. If there is any specific event or speech you're recall, I'd like to hear it.

I do disagree with pretty much everything here. I think he bent over backwards to work with Republicans while they obstructed and demagogue him at historic levels.



Trump lucked into the perfect situation. This was like his 4th time trying to run for President. What he was able to take advantage of was the anti-establishment movement that both parties have tried to suppress because of their perception of electability. See Ron Paul 2012 and Bernie in 2016.



That a Presidents Secretary of State was the favorite going into the election kind if proves the opposite of what you are saying. Few Presidents are popular enough that their party wins after a two term President. Even with a historically unpopular candidate his successor got 3 million more votes and win the popular vote by 2 points.

[striker42]

hurt feelings ==> making dumb choices

that's not a bad summary of what happened

This is pretty much it. I'm not talking about Obama trying to work with Republicans in congress or anything like that. I'm talking about the relationship between him and the rural/suburban base that elected Trump.

One thing Obama repeatedly espoused was about being on the "right side of history" or the "wrong side of history". It started early on with his clinging to guns and religion comment and just continued from there throughout his presidency.

You then had a feeling of being left out of the economic recovery as the recovery was slower outside of the major population centers. Being left out economically and being told for 8 years you're on the wrong side of history resulted in hurt feelings.

It's kind of like a bad relationship. If someone has a significant other that writes off their feelings as not important, when the next person comes along and validates their feelings, they jump at that person regardless of their other flaws.

All of this to say I'm hopeful that if Biden wins he'll be a conciliatory President. More hurt feelings will only result in another demagogue.

[Krgrecw]

Agreed. And it's why if I had to pick between Biden & Trump and wasn't allowed to vote 3rd party or sit out, I'd go with Biden. Because if a second straight "moderate" dem loses to Trump, the loony wing of the dem party will certainly be emboldened.

You rather vote against Trump than vote for Trump and watch the dem party implode?

[cajunrevenge]

51,000 more votes over 3 states for Hillary and right now Fox News would be losing their **** over 50k deaths blaming President Hillary and Trump is sending twatter messages via third parties because he is in prison. There are probably 1000 things that could have won Democrats the Presidency. I dont like Obama. Never voted for him like little thethe. I don't know where this narrative about him is coming from and I doubt most of those Americans follow politics to ever see this outside of Fox News hit pieces.

[cajunrevenge]

Looking it up maybe this is what you mean. I am 110% against letting middle east refugees come here. Their culture is **** and thats why their country is ****. If they can eat a pork sandwich with a woman in a bikini while watching an animated cartoon of Muhammed getting ****ed by a goat I would be okay with letting them in. I feel no obligation to respect anyones religion, especially when they use it to justify murders and rapes. Some of those countries they wanted to bring refugees from a majority of people think atheists should be put to death. As an atheist, not big on letting in people from a country where more than half of them think its fine to murder me. Hillary's support for this is a reason I wouldnt vote for her but thats like reason #36 out of 270.


Republicans are on the wrong side of history when it comes to Obama though. In 20-30 years they will pretend like they werent viciously attacking and obstructing him from the day he announced his candidacy. Kinda like people do with MLK.

[Runnin]

"There are no red states or blue states, just the United States." BHO

[Runnin]

This is pretty much it. I'm not talking about Obama trying to work with Republicans in congress or anything like that. I'm talking about the relationship between him and the rural/suburban base that elected Trump.

One thing Obama repeatedly espoused was about being on the "right side of history" or the "wrong side of history". It started early on with his clinging to guns and religion comment and just continued from there throughout his presidency.

You then had a feeling of being left out of the economic recovery as the recovery was slower outside of the major population centers. Being left out economically and being told for 8 years you're on the wrong side of history resulted in hurt feelings.

It's kind of like a bad relationship. If someone has a significant other that writes off their feelings as not important, when the next person comes along and validates their feelings, they jump at that person regardless of their other flaws.

All of this to say I'm hopeful that if Biden wins he'll be a conciliatory President. More hurt feelings will only result in another demagogue.

The relationship he had with ignorant, uniformed blue collar white people. That's what I thought.

[57Brave]

Mehdi Hasan
@mehdirhasan
·
13h
The Republican Party has won the popular vote in a U.S. presidential election just once in the past 32 years.

That stat should tell you everything you need to know about the current GOP voter suppression efforts.

[striker42]

The relationship he had with ignorant, uniformed blue collar white people. That's what I thought.

Thank you for making my point. That kind of elitism is problematic. You make think those people are ridiculous but their votes count as much as anyone else's. Ignore that at your own peril.

[cajunrevenge]

I dont think its elitism to treat Trump for what he is. I understand his appeal, I was vaguely for him at one point although I didnt vote for him. He was a joke. Now he is a real threat to this country. You may think this is exaggeration but this **** with Trump isnt over yet. I would say if it ends without catasrophe you can tell me I was wrong but we are closing in on 200k deaths from a virus he tried to pretend wasnt a big deal.