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Thread: Universal DH in 2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    I'll admit I am a dinosaur, but there's no excuse for having the art of bunting disintegrate the way that it has.
    I agree 100%. And the fact that it has warrants the need to move to universal DH.

    Also talking about moving the DL from 10 days back to 15...that would include if a player is options to the minors, he would have to wait at least 15 days to be called back up.
    Mark Bowman's reports carry a lot of gravity

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    I'll admit I am a dinosaur, but there's no excuse for having the art of bunting disintegrate the way that it has.
    Who has time to practice bunting when trying to squeeze 2 more MPH out of your fastball?

    Honestly there is no excuse for pitchers not knowing how to bunt. It's somewhat understandable for position players imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mqt View Post
    What possible benefit could the 3+ batters per pitcher rule have for the owners?
    What I'd like to see is something like this.

    Each pitcher must do one of the following before being removed from the game (excluding injury):

    1. Face three batters regardless of result.
    2. Record two outs.
    3. Retire the final batter of an inning.

    There is a solid argument that relievers who are outstanding in one platoon matchup make the game better, by having the best possible quality pitcher facing the hitter. However, the prevalence of lefty/righty specialists also allows guys to stay in the big leagues who probably wouldn't be there if they couldn't be used in these one batter appearances. I keep thinking back to Jesse Orosco being on rosters well beyond the time when he became eligible for Social Security simply because he was tough on left-handed batters. Peter Moylan is a more recent, right-handed example. And then you have managers like Kapler who will use his entire eight man bullpen in three innings, stretching a three hour game into something beyond four hours. It makes games borderline unwatchable, to the point that any improvement in quality of play is more than offset by the boredom brought on by the down time of mound visits and pitching changes.

    On the DH, it's beyond time for that to happen, and I was one of the biggest proponents of the NL style of play for most of my life. Every single level of baseball outside of the NL uses it. The NL teams are at a disproportionate disadvantage when facing AL teams on the road, as the AL teams are already carrying a DH while the NL teams have more traditional benches. This is magnified in the era of 13 man pitching staffs, as it's tough for a NL team to carry someone who can't at least stand in a position in the field without causing bodily harm.
    Last edited by DirkPiggler; 02-06-2019 at 09:15 AM.

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    It's time for the DH - has been for several years - unless you're willing to do away with interleague play, both leagues need to be playing by the same rules. Like lots of fans I'd prefer both played without it, but we all know that ain't happening. We've been spoiled with our Roogys and LOOGYs over the years, but Bobby, Fredi, and Snitker haven't generally gone to them just for one guy (although Snit seems to be leaning that way more often recently) so the slowdowns from burning so many Pitchers don't bother me so much since it isn't usually the Braves' fault. I don't think I'd have a problem with a 3 batter minimum rule since it'd be really good for the game to eliminate those people constantly driving you mad with the constant switches. Pretty ambivalent about the roster size changes - I like teams having the opportunity to reward prospects with call-ups at the end of the year but if you have to cut way back on the number of call-ups teams can make to cut down on the endless September pitching changes, so be it.

    I've always been in favor of the pitch clock and further limiting the number of mound visits, but that's just me. Can't stand the thought of putting runners on base in extra innings - I've always thought that was a stupid idea. I could definitely live with one trade deadline - if they wanted to move it back a month and simply eliminate the waiver deadline that's fine.
    Waters is intersting too. Would prefer a guy that projects to more power though. (2017 Draft Thread)

    If they don't make additions they can expect the same 3-5 win improvement they saw last year. That makes the Braves a 75-78 win team. (What's the best we could hope for in 2018?)


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    This wasn't mentioned in Rosenthal's article, but Passan reports a few things being discussed also includes:

    A single trade deadline, which would be prior to the All Star break
    A 20 second pitch clock
    Expansion of rosters to 26 men with a 12 pitcher maximum
    Draft advantages for winning teams and penalties for losing teams
    A study to lower the mound and a rule that would allow two-sport amateurs (Murray Rule) to sign major league contracts
    Mark Bowman's reports carry a lot of gravity

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    I’m not a fan of the DH in the NL. What makes National League games interesting is the strategy involved. You can put a dog in the dugout as a manager for an AL team, because he can sit there and not do much of anything because of the lack of strategy. But, because high school and college baseball use the DH, it’s all but inevitable in the NL. Doesn’t mean I have to like it.
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    Managers don’t play a huge part in the outcome of a game now. Making a pitching change should be based on how the pitcher is throwing. Not how he is hitting. Let the game evolve and become specialized to be able to combat the offensive specialization. I don’t care for the DH either. But there is a compelling argument for it and I am not going to be the guy who thinks the game should never evolve to keep the interest going.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    see, for me, it's mostly pitchers bunting anyway. pitchers bunting is not the least bit exciting. pitchers batting in general is not exciting, for me.
    It isn't exciting at all. I just can't believe it's just such a lost art.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanforlife88 View Post
    This wasn't mentioned in Rosenthal's article, but Passan reports a few things being discussed also includes:

    A single trade deadline, which would be prior to the All Star break
    A 20 second pitch clock
    Expansion of rosters to 26 men with a 12 pitcher maximum
    Draft advantages for winning teams and penalties for losing teams
    A study to lower the mound and a rule that would allow two-sport amateurs (Murray Rule) to sign major league contracts
    I've been advocating this for years.

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    Yes, please! Inject this in my veins.
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    i don't see how this could be implemented for the 2019 season, tho, this deep into FA. would've potentially changed a lot of team's strategies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    i don't see how this could be implemented for the 2019 season, tho, this deep into FA. would've potentially changed a lot of team's strategies.
    Very few FAs have signed so shouldn't be a huge impact

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    Nobody under the age of 40 wants to see a pitcher lay down a bunt or flail away miserably at the plate. It is not exciting to watch Glavine poke the ball 15' in front of the plate. It does not add "strategy" when bunting is the expected tactic for pitchers. If sending up a guy to PH in the 5th through 9th inning qualifies as "strategy" to you, then you're so mentally slow you won't be able to figure out how to watch baseball when it goes all streaming in 10 years anyways (as evidenced by all the bitching over FB Live games).

    The number of grumpy old guys who stop watching baseball due to the DH will be far outweighed by the number of young people who tolerate watching a baseball game with every rule change that rids the game of some of its monotony. These rule changes are needed, and far overdue.

    Forcing a pitcher to face 3 batters could be a minimal improvement on the pace of play problem. The "unless they are injured" loophole needs to be closed by forcing a pitcher removed from a game early to be placed on the DL, or it will just be abused. All these small pace of play improvements will add up to some time savings, but the main one continues to be time between pitches....the fault of both the batter and pitcher.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 02-06-2019 at 12:11 PM.
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    I have wanted the DH for many years now. Another idea I like is instead of having DH for pitcher in the NL have a Designated fielder. Obviously the pitcher has to be in on the play so you can only use it for the regular positions. So pitchers still hit. This would significantly boost the value of defensive only players. We dont even see some of the best defenders at the ML level because they couldnt hit a lick. Potentially we would see a lot more and better defensive highlights.



    I dont like any of the other suggestions. I wouldnt mind something to spice up the end of the regular season for bad teams with draft picks as incentive but not like the way they proposed. Rather some kind of playoff or maybe take the bottom 10 teams in the last month of the season and best record in that month gets top pick. I would love some kind of reverse playoffs for draft picks but I dont think thats going to happen for logistics reasons. I think with the September callups its a good time for those teams to call up some prospects and play in meaningful games. I know if we were bottom 10 we would be rooting hard for that top pick and its ****ty to bemoan your team for winning because of draft picks. It also means those bottom feeders wont be conceding free wins to contenders late in the season.
    Last edited by cajunrevenge; 02-06-2019 at 12:47 PM.
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    Im for the DH, while i like old school NL baseball.

    The strategy part is fair but i mean when you have runners on 2 outs, you can just walk the 8th place hitter and face the pitcher for an easy out.

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    I hate the DH, but agree with whoever said that not having it puts the NL at a disadvantage. Might as well get it done. More scoring brings in more fans anyway.

    The 3 batter minimum is creative. I like it.

    The pitch clock is way past due. It needs to be on a scoreboard like the shot clock in basketball, starting at the moment the umpire calls a ball or strike on the previous pitch.

    Batters should lose the option of calling timeout at the plate, or maybe give each batter one timeout per game. Watching AL East hitters hold their hand up for 20 seconds while they dig their cleats in just right is not entertaining.

    I couldn't care less about any of the roster changes outside of the 10 day DL. That needs to go back to 15 days.

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    With the way analytics have evolved the game, it makes no sense for a team to have to burn a bench player every other inning. Just have the DH and save your bench players.

    Also, if I have to watch Folty hit one more time, Iím going to be physically ill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung31 View Post
    With the way analytics have evolved the game, it makes no sense for a team to have to burn a bench player every other inning. Just have the DH and save your bench players.

    Also, if I have to watch Folty hit one more time, I’m going to be physically ill.
    I have no problem with much in terms of analytics, but I don't see how analytics are really entering into the DH discussion. I agree that it is problematic that benches get burned by pinch-hitting, but that has more to do with the changing nature of roster construction than it does with analytics. I grew up in an era when 10-man pitching staffs were the norm (of course, the average fastball velocity was below 90 mph) and with 7-man benches, most teams carried a pinch-hitting specialist (Smokey Burgess, Manny Mota, etc.). That has changed and it's not all bad.

    But I think forcing pitchers to face more than one guy (I like Dirk Piggler's suggestions) is a good move. I just hope Tony Fossas doesn't hunt me down for writing this. For those of you unfamiliar with Tony, in 12 major league seasons (11 full seasons), his IP only exceeded his number of appearances twice (and one of those seasons had a total of 5 appearances and 5.2 IP).

    For the record, I don't have that much of an issue with the universal DH and my comments about bunting were related more to no one knows how to bunt anymore divorced from any strategic implications of its use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    I have no problem with much in terms of analytics, but I don't see how analytics are really entering into the DH discussion. I agree that it is problematic that benches get burned by pinch-hitting, but that has more to do with the changing nature of roster construction than it does with analytics. I grew up in an era when 10-man pitching staffs were the norm (of course, the average fastball velocity was below 90 mph) and with 7-man benches, most teams carried a pinch-hitting specialist (Smokey Burgess, Manny Mota, etc.). That has changed and it's not all bad.

    But I think forcing pitchers to face more than one guy (I like Dirk Piggler's suggestions) is a good move. I just hope Tony Fossas doesn't hunt me down for writing this. For those of you unfamiliar with Tony, in 12 major league seasons (11 full seasons), his IP only exceeded his number of appearances twice (and one of those seasons had a total of 5 appearances and 5.2 IP).

    For the record, I don't have that much of an issue with the universal DH and my comments about bunting were related more to no one knows how to bunt anymore divorced from any strategic implications of its use.
    Love it when someone else finds a reason to mention Smokey - knew him for a long time, and he was truly a better person than player!!!
    Waters is intersting too. Would prefer a guy that projects to more power though. (2017 Draft Thread)

    If they don't make additions they can expect the same 3-5 win improvement they saw last year. That makes the Braves a 75-78 win team. (What's the best we could hope for in 2018?)


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    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    I have no problem with much in terms of analytics, but I don't see how analytics are really entering into the DH discussion. I agree that it is problematic that benches get burned by pinch-hitting, but that has more to do with the changing nature of roster construction than it does with analytics. I grew up in an era when 10-man pitching staffs were the norm (of course, the average fastball velocity was below 90 mph) and with 7-man benches, most teams carried a pinch-hitting specialist (Smokey Burgess, Manny Mota, etc.). That has changed and it's not all bad.

    But I think forcing pitchers to face more than one guy (I like Dirk Piggler's suggestions) is a good move. I just hope Tony Fossas doesn't hunt me down for writing this. For those of you unfamiliar with Tony, in 12 major league seasons (11 full seasons), his IP only exceeded his number of appearances twice (and one of those seasons had a total of 5 appearances and 5.2 IP).

    For the record, I don't have that much of an issue with the universal DH and my comments about bunting were related more to no one knows how to bunt anymore divorced from any strategic implications of its use.
    Roster construction is changing as a direct result of analytics.

    Analytics told us that SPs face a severe penalty when facing a batter for the 3rd time, so more BP are used. More BP guys lead to more PH being used because analytics told us how important platoon advantages truly are.
    Gausman had a bad walk ratio for us -CrazyTrain 11/20/2018
    BB/9 with Braves: 2.72

    Fried, Newk and a couple other guys for Bumgarner and give him a pay day for 6ish years -CrazyTrain 10/15/18

    Matt Adams to the Tampa Bay Rays for Jake Odorizzi makes too much sense not to happen -clvclv 10/17/17
    Matt Adams non-tendered by Braves 12/2/17

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