Name all of the managers who are better than Fredi, and give specific examples of what they do that's better. I'm betting you can't.Originally Posted by BremanFan88
Name all of the managers who are better than Fredi, and give specific examples of what they do that's better. I'm betting you can't.
ChapelHillMatt (11-06-2013)
This is like Derek Jeter winning a gold glove. He isn't the worst fielder in baseball but nowhere near the best.
Natural Immunity Croc
Dalyn (11-06-2013)
They are similar in the same way -
is similar to -
Gary82 (11-07-2013)
Perhaps we should be specific and list things Fredi did this year, the good and the bad.
The Good
1. He was flexible with the lineup, moving Simmons out of the top spot when it was clear he couldn't handle it, and then trying others, finally going with Heyward, a somewhat unlikely choice given his size and potential for rbis.
2. He protected the bullpen, especially Kimbrel and didn't overuse him.
3. Bullpen management in general a huge win for both him and Roger.
4. He never panicked while we were going through our offensive woes and let the team play itself out of them and onto 96 wins.
5. No dead strippers in his room or drunk interviews. Kudos.
6. No domestic violence issues.
7. No unnecessary drama with the press, with teammates, or among teammates. This is probably the hardest thing of all.
8. He got Gattis plenty of playing time.
9. Uggla and BJ spent a lot of time on the bench.
The Bad
Nothing sticks out to me but I'm less critical that others. I blame the Uribe HR on McCann and Carpenter. Too many breaking balls.
ChapelHillMatt (11-06-2013), Heyward (11-06-2013)
1. Is not true. It took him forever to make the right, OBVIOUS move at the top, and the team and certain players suffered for it.
2. In the end, he protected Kimbrel too much.
3. Better than years before, but we will be lucky if Avilan survives his bullpen management.
4. True.
5. True.
6. True.
7. Not true at all. We had a coach fight with a player and had a player trash Fredi's managing to the press.
8. By necessity.
9. That is a con. We ended up with EJ in the playoffs, and now BJ still has a problem going into another year, instead of working it out in September.
The Bad - Just the fact that you say this proves you guys have no perspective.
yeezus (11-06-2013)
Shouldn't #9 be a knock on Wren as much if not moreso than Fredi?
But we have no perspective?
Bottom line is the team has gotten better each year under his leadership....that's a positive.
Yes. Wren deserves a lot of the blame, and I've mentioned that before. I also acknowledge that Fredi likely does a lot right behind the scenes. Maybe even everything right behind the scenes. But he is a **** in-game manager. He just is.
And that's why him and Bobby Cox are very similar. Although I don't think Fredi (nor Bobby) are nearly as bad as people want to believe. It's just not their strength.
It's nearly no manager's strength.
I disagree about Bobby being a bad in-game manager, but that doesn't really matter now. We are stuck with Fredi for another year. I have a feeling we might see Snitker in 2015.
The good ones stay out of the way as much as possible and put players in the best spot to shine. Bobby did that better than just about anyone. Fredi is terrible at it.
Yeah we are stuck with a manager that led his team to a division title in his 3rd year. Woe is us!!!!
Bobby was not a good in game manager either, the only reason you think he was is because he's Bobby Cox and has the legendary status. If he didn't have that you would be just as critical of him as you are Fredi. I can't tell you how many times he frustrated me with his decisions. He was especially bad at leaving a pitcher in too long. He also used the sacrifice bunt and played for one run (something people hate Fredi for). They manage games a lot alike.
Neither one of them have been very good in the postseason. If you think Bobby would have used Kimbrel for 2 innings I would have to say you would be wrong. He wouldn't have managed the postseason any differently than Fredi did. Both of them manage the postseason the same way they do the regular season and that's to show patience and trust their players to perform like they did the previous 6 months. Neither one of them show a sense of urgency.
Disagree. They're the same, more or less.
Bobby used Kimbrel for two innings in the playoffs in 2010. A very good two innings, by the way.
Disagree.
Not as the closer.
Is anybody else annoyed by the fact that Fredi is passive as ****? It seems like Bobby was always screaming at the umps from the dugout or waddling out onto the field at the drop of a hat in defense of his players. Fredi runs out, asks the umpire a question, universally seems happy with the answer, and is right back in the dugout. It takes a lot for him to get tossed.
Fredi doesn't need to be a Larry Bowa / Lou Pinella, but some more fire would be nice for me.
That being said, I think he is generally an OK in-game strategist (better than Cox, IMO.)
You guys already admitted that Fredi was a bad in-game manager, so I am good. Bobby's career speaks for itself.
I wouldn't say he's bad but I'll admit he's not a great in game strategist. Difference between you and me is I don't think that makes him a bad manager. There is more to managing than filling out lineup cards and making in game decisions. It's a small part of the job.
Your argument has been he's a bad manager and deserves to be fired. That's where we are disagreeing. Nobody is making the argument that he's perfect and has no weaknesses.
Doesn't really bother me, not everyone has the same personality. Bobby was unique in that regard, much like Earl Weaver was.
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