Impeachment

[Snowman]

Thats quite a statement considering Republicans got less votes in 6 of the last 7 presidential elections. I dont know where you are getting those stats from but there is a wide range of people on both sides. I am a conservative and so is thethe, we dont belong under the same label though.

How independents voted in those 7 elections (not the same as left-right-moderate, I know, but we only have the numbers we have): Clinton won them by 6 in 92 and by 8 in 96, Bush won them by 2 in 2000 and lost them by one in 2004 (there's those splits that are all the right needs to win), Obama won them by 21 in 08 and 15 in 12, and Trump won them by 12 points in 16.

[cajunrevenge]

and I am part of that 38% but I am center-left according to this place.

[Snowman]

and I am part of that 38% but I am center-left according to this place.

By any reasonable measure, I'm slight-right fiscally, solidly left socially. By the new Trumpian standards, that makes me a wild-eyed communist infiltrator.

[nsacpi]

By any reasonable measure, I'm slight-right fiscally, solidly left socially. By the new Trumpian standards, that makes me a wild-eyed communist infiltrator.

crazy isn't it

[cajunrevenge]

https://www.portman.senate.gov/newsr...ommitment-help





And a Republican Senator released a bipartisan letter sent to Ukraine asking that in part to have prosecutor Victor Shokin removed because he was corrupt back in 2016.

[cajunrevenge]

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...to-close-cases



And the former President of "the" Ukraine says Joe Biden never asked him to open or close any cases.

[57Brave]

[nsacpi]

chiner... final death blow

[cajunrevenge]

No, this is the deathblow.



https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/03/p...ker/index.html



House releases texts from Volker. They are caught red handed.




"Good lunch - thanks. Heard from Whitehouse - assuming Predident Z convinces Trump he will investigate/"get to the bottom of what happened in 2016, we will nail down a date for visit to Washington"




There's your quid quo pro. Now to wait for Republicans to say Quid Qui Pro isnt a crime. This was on the first page of texts. Dont have time to read through them all now.

[Runnin]

As long as the GOP and FOX stands behind him, he can literally do anything he wants, until someone of rank openly stands up to him. I think he is showing us that with the public soliciting of China.

I remember the big turning point in the McCarthy hearings was when that guy finally said "At long last, sir, have you no sense of decency?" Or something like that. Somebody is going to have to defy Trump forcefully to his face, probably multiple times, to shock public opinion into falling.

The guy was Joseph N. Welch. It's a shame I didn't know his name.

[cajunrevenge]

I think he is toast and it could happen sooner than we think. I expect them to try and use the last text where the US Ambassador to EU says "no quid quo pro" as a defense but this was after the whistleblower complaint when they knew this was about to get out.



I dont see anyway out or this for Republicans. They have been all over media saying this is a nothing burger because there wasnt(in their biased eyes) Quid Quo Pro which is admitting that it would be a big deal.

[striker42]

Am I the only one who has just always assumed politicians constantly use their official power to attempt to harm political opponents and/or shield themselves from from attack?

[nsacpi]

Am I the only one who has just always assumed politicians constantly use their official power to attempt to harm political opponents and/or shield themselves from from attack?

Sure. Trump is being benghazied on a grand scale. It is a target rich environment. Life is hard. And it is harder when you have poor impulse control and constantly do dumb illegal things. Pull up a chair and enjoy the show.

[nsacpi]

As long as the GOP and FOX stands behind him, he can literally do anything he wants, until someone of rank openly stands up to him. I think he is showing us that with the public soliciting of China.

I remember the big turning point in the McCarthy hearings was when that guy finally said "At long last, sir, have you no sense of decency?" Or something like that. Somebody is going to have to defy Trump forcefully to his face, probably multiple times, to shock public opinion into falling.

The guy was Joseph N. Welch. It's a shame I didn't know his name.

The GOP is going to pretty much go down with him. He will probably not get convicted by the Senate. But there is a big change in the political calculus. Before impeachment was really a non-starter for the Dems. Now it is a winner. A no brainer. The right thing to do and the politically winning thing to do.

[Snowman]

Now the pertinent question becomes "cui bono?"

[cajunrevenge]

Am I the only one who has just always assumed politicians constantly use their official power to attempt to harm political opponents and/or shield themselves from from attack?

I think 90% of politicians are crooks. That doesnt mean any of them should get off the hook because we think they all do it.

[Snowman]

I think 90% of politicians are crooks. That doesnt mean any of them should get off the hook because we think they all do it.

I think 90% of politicians are crooks within the nation. I also think going outside and dealing dirt with hostile foreign powers is a much, much more rare occurrence (and some of the things that happened with China were easily the most disturbing events of during the Clinton admin, that somehow got completely forgotten under the public titillation of a blowjob).

[57Brave]

I think the opposite.

I think ~95%~ go into it for the right reasons then get swallowed by fund raising.
and dont think term limits is at all the answer - it would only create a revolving door of fresh meat for lobbyists of all stripes

and for example would argue that campaign finance is at the heart of the battle over health care policies
Because if it gets nationalized, as it should, look at the corporate profits lost . It is that shadow industry that continues to prop up that old corrupt system


I guess we could at the same time lump in the defense industry which carries over to the domestic weapons industry

[nsacpi]

I've been waiting for the White House to push the "Rudy made me do it" narrative. Et voila, courtesy of the WSJ. Imo this is the best line of defense for the Chosen One. Of course, there are some unpredictable egos involved, which makes it not without risk. But it is the best option politically. Throw Rudy under the bus. Maybe he will be a good soldier. Omerta and all that.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-o...rs-11570137147

President Trump ordered the removal of the ambassador to Ukraine after months of complaints from allies outside the administration, including his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, that she was undermining him abroad and obstructing efforts to persuade Kyiv to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, according to people familiar with the matter.

The recall of Marie Yovanovitch in the spring has become a key point of interest in the House impeachment inquiry. A whistleblower complaint by a CIA officer alleges the president solicited foreign interference in the 2020 elections by pressing Ukraine’s president in a July 25 call to pursue investigations, including into the activities of Mr. Biden, a Democrat who is running for president.

[striker42]

I think 90% of politicians are crooks. That doesnt mean any of them should get off the hook because we think they all do it.

Let them off the hook? No. Laugh when people act shocked and scandalized about it? Absolutely.

I just find the jockeying for moral superiority to be incredibly funny. It's all just partisan fighting with the players trying to make it look like a moral struggle instead of just another partisan squabble.