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Thread: Impeachment

  1. #1921
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    It's not disinformation.
    Sure it is. There is no factual basis to predicate an investigation into Joe Biden or Ukrainian interference in the 2016 elections. Zip. Nada.

    And you or Posobiec or your other favorite "sources" saying there is doesn't make it so. No matter how many times you assert it to be so. The world of alternate facts may be your world. But it aint mine.
    Last edited by nsacpi; 12-30-2019 at 09:58 AM.
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  2. #1922
    It's OVER 5,000! Runnin's Avatar
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    For the record, I think Joe and Hunter Biden should testify and totally air out with cross examination whatever ugly optics there happen to be, as long as 2 of the big 4 on the other side testify: Giuliani, Mulvaney, Bolton or Pompeo. or Trump himself.
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  4. #1923
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin View Post
    For the record, I think Joe and Hunter Biden should testify and totally air out with cross examination whatever ugly optics there happen to be, as long as 2 of the big 4 on the other side testify: Giuliani, Mulvaney, Bolton or Pompeo. or Trump himself.
    I'd be fine with the Senate adopting rules that allow a wide range of witnesses to be called. More than fine. The rules should be similar to any trial.
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  5. #1924
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Sure it is. There is no factual basis to predicate an investigation into Joe Biden or Ukrainian interference in the 2016 elections. Zip. Nada.

    And you or Posobiec or your other favorite "sources" saying there is doesn't make it so. No matter how many times you assert it to be so. The world of alternate facts may be your world. But it aint mine.
    The world of alternative facts are not your world?

    WOW

    Why don't you just take a break on the sideline after you got the last 3+ years embarrassingly wrong.

    When are the Germans coming again?

    Nothing has been appropriately investigated because its clear now that a whole cabal existed whereby the guilty were investigating themselves.
    Natural Immunity Croc

  6. #1925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    Except for the multiple investigations that determined it was so....
    Yeah, the Obama administration investigating the Obama administration.

    What could go wrong?

    We already saw the lengths, criminal lengths mind you, that the past administration would go to in order to ensure Trump wasn't still in office. You ever wonder why?
    Natural Immunity Croc

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Yeah, the Obama administration investigating the Obama administration.

    What could go wrong?

    We already saw the lengths, criminal lengths mind you, that the past administration would go to in order to ensure Trump wasn't still in office. You ever wonder why?
    Except for another investigation that just ended and determined that this conspiracy is also unfounded. Hmmm... wonder why?

  8. #1927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    Except for another investigation that just ended and determined that this conspiracy is also unfounded. Hmmm... wonder why?
    No, that is not what the investigation just yielded.

    Quite the opposite actually.
    Natural Immunity Croc

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/29/u...itary-aid.html

    Are you telling me this wasn't just a random Trump decision without involvement from everyone?

    Leftist arguments just getting worse and worse.
    Natural Immunity Croc

  10. #1929
    Not Actually Brian Hunter Metaphysicist's Avatar
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    Did you even read that article? I can't imagine a rational person reading it and saying "yep, that was a well-reasoned, group decision."

  11. #1930
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphysicist View Post
    Did you even read that article? I can't imagine a rational person reading it and saying "yep, that was a well-reasoned, group decision."
    The narrative is that trump and trump alone without any discussion conditioned aid only on an investigation. The article depicts that it was much more in depth and dealt with a large swath of issues.
    Natural Immunity Croc

  12. #1931
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    This is what the article says:

    What emerges is the story of how Mr. Trump’s demands sent shock waves through the White House and the Pentagon, created deep rifts within the senior ranks of his administration, left key aides like Mr. Mulvaney under intensifying scrutiny — and ended only after Mr. Trump learned of a damning whistle-blower report and came under pressure from influential Republican lawmakers.

    ...

    Opposition to the order from his top national security advisers was more intense than previously known. In late August, Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper joined Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and John R. Bolton, the national security adviser at the time, for a previously undisclosed Oval Office meeting with the president where they tried but failed to convince him that releasing the aid was in interests of the United States.
    ...

    The interviews and documents show how Mr. Trump used the bureaucracy to advance his agenda in the face of questions about its propriety and even legality from officials in the White House budget office and the Pentagon, many of whom say they were kept in the dark about the president’s motivations and had grown used to convention-flouting requests from the West Wing.
    And so on. So no, you didn't seem to read it.

  13. #1932
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    That's the part that certainly details the administrative state thinking they have any power over the president on these types of issues.

    One of the many reasons we elected him.

  14. #1933
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    That's the part that certainly details the administrative state thinking they have any power over the president on these types of issues.

    One of the many reasons we elected him.
    By "we" are you referring to you and Russia, you and the white supremacists faction, you and the fake Christians, or just you and the rest of the minority who were tricked into voting for a con man?
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  15. #1934
    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    That's the part that certainly details the administrative state thinking they have any power over the president on these types of issues.

    One of the many reasons we elected him.
    I realize it’s pointless to argue this kind of thing with you, but since the aid money was appropriated by Congress, the consternation on the part of the “administrative state” seems to have been warranted.

  16. #1935
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    I realize it’s pointless to argue this kind of thing with you, but since the aid money was appropriated by Congress, the consternation on the part of the “administrative state” seems to have been warranted.
    Comes down to whether we are going to have rule of law or rule of man.
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  17. #1936
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    I realize it’s pointless to argue this kind of thing with you, but since the aid money was appropriated by Congress, the consternation on the part of the “administrative state” seems to have been warranted.
    Or we could just recognize who is in charge of the executive branch and understand elections have consequences.

    Just like Brexit the American left will be dragged kicking and screaming along to prosperity.

    Looking at the England is like a ****ing mirror. You all have yet to accept you lost in 2016 and with that loss comes policy changes.

  18. #1937
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Or we could just recognize who is in charge of the executive branch and understand elections have consequences.

    Just like Brexit the American left will be dragged kicking and screaming along to prosperity.

    Looking at the England is like a ****ing mirror. You all have yet to accept you lost in 2016 and with that loss comes policy changes.
    Not really sure what any of that means. Are you saying that winning an election in 2016 means that the executive branch can ignore funds lawfully appropriated by Congress (elected in 2018, btw)?

  19. #1938
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Not really sure what any of that means. Are you saying that winning an election in 2016 means that the executive branch can ignore funds lawfully appropriated by Congress (elected in 2018, btw)?
    Appropriation is one step in the process. The appropriation was never ignored.
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  20. #1939
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Appropriation is one step in the process. The appropriation was never ignored.
    chosen one ordered the funds frozen. There are narrow legal grounds for doing something like that, none of which were met in this instance. His reasons for freezing the funds had nothing to do with concerns about corruption or whether the funds would be misused. He acted to pressure Ukraine to join the drug deal he and Rudy cooked up.

    It is interesting that Bolton asserted this was a drug deal cooked up by Mulvaney and Sondland. That's actually a misunderstanding on Bolton's part. Sondland's testimony (and the testimony of others) makes it clear that this was a drug deal cooked up by chosen one and Giuliani. Mulvaney and Sondland are mere foot soldiers in this scheme.
    Last edited by nsacpi; 01-01-2020 at 06:58 PM.
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  21. #1940
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Or we could just recognize who is in charge of the executive branch and understand elections have consequences.

    Just like Brexit the American left will be dragged kicking and screaming along to prosperity.

    Looking at the England is like a ****ing mirror. You all have yet to accept you lost in 2016 and with that loss comes policy changes.
    The executive branch must remember than it is only 1 branch of 3. It's crazy to turn over all powers of government to whomever can win the highly, highly flawed presidential election process. Trump seems to think he's in charge of everything if he wants to be.

    All candidates for President should have to take and pass tests to prove they understand how the government is designed to work, from a basic understanding of governmental administration to a history of foreign policy. The U.S. needs to realize that another Trump is very likely and any demagogue type candidate needs special preparation for the office and should not even be considered UNTIL that candidate has proven capable of digesting some BASIC FACTS OF THE JOB.
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