What a Reconstructed Pen Might Look Like

[nsacpi]

We've had significant injuries to Viz and O'Day, minor injuries to others, and performance issues with a significant number of relievers. There is some reconstruction work that lies ahead and I wanted to throw out for discussion names and ideas for reconfiguring the pen:

RHP (4): Pick up 2 new arms. Kimbrel could be one. Among players for teams falling out of contention very quickly I have interest in Givens from the Orioles and Steckenrider from the Marlins. Others will undoubtedly become available. But the idea is to pick up 2 new arms. The remaining 2 RHP will come from Jackson, Webb, Tomlin, Winkler, Parsons, Sobotka, Wilson, Touki, Wright depending on effectiveness.

LHP (4): Pick up 1 new arm. Smith and Watson from the Giants are possibilities. Minter will remain. And the last two will come from Venters, Biddle, Dayton, Newk and Blevins depending upon effectiveness.

The four high leverage guys would be the 2 new RHP and 1 new LHP along with Minter. Everyone else would move to a situational or lower leverage role to which they are better suited.

Our main problem right now is relying on unproven guys in fairly high leverage roles. We have a need for some significant reconstruction. At the same time, the pen is the area where a mid-season upgrade is easiest to accomplish. There are always plenty of solid options available. Plus the circumstance of Kimbrel being available as a FA this year.

[Enscheff]

I'm not sure how likely it is to acquire 3 high leverage BP arms to completely remake the BP when nearly every contender is going to be trying to add to the BP.

Simply pushing Newk, Wilson and Touki to the BP, and acquiring 1 of the Giants LHP is a much more realistic route for an organization brimming with talented arms.

I still think Kimbrel ends up as a Brave, but that's probably just the homer in me talking.

[Super]

yeah, kimbrel (satan willing), one of newk, touki, or wilson succeeding in the BP role, and one trade acquisition should shape it up nicely.

[jpx7]

yeah, kimbrel (satan willing), one of newk, touki, or wilson succeeding in the BP role, and one trade acquisition should shape it up nicely.

[nsacpi]

I'm not sure how likely it is to acquire 3 high leverage BP arms to completely remake the BP when nearly every contender is going to be trying to add to the BP.

Simply pushing Newk, Wilson and Touki to the BP, and acquiring 1 of the Giants LHP is a much more realistic route for an organization brimming with talented arms.

I still think Kimbrel ends up as a Brave, but that's probably just the homer in me talking.

Unless needs arise in other areas, we can concentrate resources on the pen. At this point I would be inclined to be ambitious about upgrading it over the next couple months.

We are fortunate so far in having a healthy lineup with guys like Duvall and Riley doing well in AAA. The rotation has gotten a boost from two of the young guys taking a big step forward. We are in a position to concentrate resources on the pen.

[Orphan Black]

They just need to trade for Panda and make him the closer...that would fix the bullpen

[Hudson2]

Kimbrel will be a Brave in a month imo. I think they have an agreement in place and are just waiting till the draft is over.

[Russ2dollas]

I'd love to see us use more multi-inning guys vs hoping 3-5 guys all have it for a night.

The more I hear Newk talk the more I think he's mentally a RP. He's a grip it and rip it guy.

If we had Newk, Touki, Weigel (later in the year), Wilson, Wright, Gohara (if he's ever healthy) going up and down as multi inning guys , then I think we'd have a big time pen. We don't have to have guys like Touki as RP forever, but for this year it makes sense.

5-6 innings of a starter and 2-3 innings of one of those guys should put you in a good spot most nights.

Why couldn't we tell one of those guys when the starter gets through the lineup the second time you are up?

[Enscheff]

Simply pushing Newk, Wilson and Touki to the BP, and acquiring 1 of the Giants LHP is a much more realistic route for an organization brimming with talented arms.

We just saw another step in this process take place when Newk came out of the BP following a RHP and was exactly what folks hoped he would be.

When a team like the Dodgers stacks a lineup with LHH to face a RHP like Gausman, bringing in a LHP like Newk for an extended outing is very effective.

[bravesfanMatt]

We just saw another step in this process take place when Newk came out of the BP following a RHP and was exactly what folks hoped he would be.

When a team like the Dodgers stacks a lineup with LHH to face a RHP like Gausman, bringing in a LHP like Newk for an extended outing is very effective.

That would be awesome. Soroka game 1 starter. Then announce Gaus as game 2 starter and when they stack lefties, pull him before he throws a pitch for Fried.

[nsacpi]

With the way Minter is going, I assume there will be a couple short term moves. One is activating Venters, who has pitched well in his rehab stint. Another might be giving some high leverage opportunities to Newk. Let's see what happens. Ultimately, we will still have to make multiple external moves imo.

[clvclv]

With the way Minter is going, I assume there will be a couple short term moves. One is activating Venters, who has pitched well in his rehab stint. Another might be giving some high leverage opportunities to Newk. Let's see what happens. Ultimately, we will still have to make multiple external moves imo.

And whether it looks like "panicking" or not, at least one of those external moves needs to come soon. As mentioned in the other thread, that's 7 blown out of 13 chances. Venters isn't a 9th inning option. Neither is Biddle. I'm not ready to buy into the idea that Newk's fixed his control to the point that he'll ever throw enough strikes to be trusted with the last 3 outs. Maybe you try him there once and see what happens, but I'm still skeptical.

AA simply can't continue running complete question marks out there to try to get the last 3 outs until they can sign Kimbrel without losing the pick. Go get Smith. Go get Melancon. Anyone who's at least had periods of late-inning success until you can potentially bring Craig in. We're 4 games back already - if you wait three more weeks to do SOMETHING, you're giving the Phillies the chance to run away and hide. They'll eventually get a better Robertson back, Nola's not going to continue to be bad, and they could easily add Keuchel at the same time AA possibly adds Kimbrel.

They just can't go three more weeks without addressing things.

[Enscheff]

We just saw another step in this process take place when Newk came out of the BP following a RHP and was exactly what folks hoped he would be.

When a team like the Dodgers stacks a lineup with LHH to face a RHP like Gausman, bringing in a LHP like Newk for an extended outing is very effective.

Newk again showed what the revamped BP might start looking like with internal options. If Minter can get himself figured out, that's a strong LH duo in the BP.

Rather than giving Newk one shot in the 9th and then making a ridiculous snap judgement based on almost zero data, he needs to be inserted into higher and higher leverage situations where he is likely to succeed based on match ups so he can build up to being the high leverage BP weapon he was destined to be from the start.

This idea that some guys can pitch the 9th and some can't needs to go away once and for all, and the idea of leverage needs to be adopted organizationally. If all leadership starts talking about the "BP Ace" being used in the "highest leverage point of the game", the players will start to buy in.

[salmagundy]

some not so fun stats about Braves pitching---

David O'Brien
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@DOBrienATL
3h3 hours ago
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#Braves relievers have issued majors-high 82 walks in 139 1/3 innings and have the majors' 4th-highest opponents' OBP (.353) and fifth-worst save percentage (53.8).


David O'Brien
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@DOBrienATL
3h3 hours ago
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#Braves pitchers have issued a majors-high 162 walks, while no other NL team has issued more than 143. (White Sox and Rangers have 151.)

[Southcack77]

We've had significant injuries to Viz and O'Day, minor injuries to others, and performance issues with a significant number of relievers. There is some reconstruction work that lies ahead and I wanted to throw out for discussion names and ideas for reconfiguring the pen:

RHP (4): Pick up 2 new arms. Kimbrel could be one. Among players for teams falling out of contention very quickly I have interest in Givens from the Orioles and Steckenrider from the Marlins. Others will undoubtedly become available. But the idea is to pick up 2 new arms. The remaining 2 RHP will come from Jackson, Webb, Tomlin, Winkler, Parsons, Sobotka, Wilson, Touki, Wright depending on effectiveness.

LHP (4): Pick up 1 new arm. Smith and Watson from the Giants are possibilities. Minter will remain. And the last two will come from Venters, Biddle, Dayton, Newk and Blevins depending upon effectiveness.

The four high leverage guys would be the 2 new RHP and 1 new LHP along with Minter. Everyone else would move to a situational or lower leverage role to which they are better suited.

Our main problem right now is relying on unproven guys in fairly high leverage roles. We have a need for some significant reconstruction. At the same time, the pen is the area where a mid-season upgrade is easiest to accomplish. There are always plenty of solid options available. Plus the circumstance of Kimbrel being available as a FA this year.

Paying prospect costs for relievers in season tends to be less than ideal.

If they can pick up Kimbrel and your man off the unemployment line that would be pretty good. Then if needed they can look into another acquisition as well. Since things have stabilized a bit, I think I would lean towards riding this out a bit more and looking to my internal options while waiting on some milestone dates for potential candidates.

[nsacpi]

Paying prospect costs for relievers in season tends to be less than ideal.

If they can pick up Kimbrel and your man off the unemployment line that would be pretty good. Then if needed they can look into another acquisition as well. Since things have stabilized a bit, I think I would lean towards riding this out a bit more and looking to my internal options while waiting on some milestone dates for potential candidates.

I'm as much of a prospect hoarder and value trader as anyone, and would give the prospect cost a fair amount of weight in deciding which deals to make to upgrade the pen. There are ways to do this without giving up much in the way of prospects. Getting Kimbrel is obviously one way. Another is acquiring someone who is a rental, as we did with Brad Brach last year. Will Smith for example is going to be a free agent. The third possibility is to get someone with the kind of contract that eats up any surplus value. Here I have in mind Ian Kennedy, who seems to be on his way to making a very successful transition to the pen. If we took on most of his contract, we wouldn't have to give up much in the way of prospects.

[clvclv]

I'm as much of a prospect hoarder and value trader as anyone, and would give the prospect cost a fair amount of weight in deciding which deals to make to upgrade the pen. There are ways to do this without giving up much in the way of prospects. Getting Kimbrel is obviously one way. Another is acquiring someone who is a rental, as we did with Brad Brach last year. Will Smith for example is going to be a free agent. The third possibility is to get someone with the kind of contract that eats up any surplus value. Here I have in mind Ian Kennedy, who seems to be on his way to making a very successful transition to the pen. If we took on most of his contract, we wouldn't have to give up much in the way of prospects.

Still think San Francisco could line up as a "one-stop shop" for both sides - Smith as the LH (pure rental) and Melancon as the guy with no surplus value. If they want a prospect of much consequence, they have to eat a chunk of Melancon's $$$.

[msstate7]

Dude, pen is fixed. Since last Monday, here's the numbers (throwing out Carle who was obviously the only issue)...
26.2 ip 17 h 2 er 9 bb 29 k
Era = 0.68
Whip = 0.99

Now that Carle is gone, championship quality

[bravesfanMatt]

I still think one of Biddle and or Sobotka will play a key role before it is all said and done. The talent is there for both to be successful. They are just not executing.

[nsacpi]

Dude, pen is fixed. Since last Monday, here's the numbers (throwing out Carle who was obviously the only issue)...
26.2 ip 17 h 2 er 9 bb 29 k
Era = 0.68
Whip = 0.99

Now that Carle is gone, championship quality

The pen is not fixed. We have guys pitching in high leverage situations who are not really ready for those roles.