Around Baseball Offseason Edition - Derek Jeter will retire at seasons end

[clvclv]

Is there a reason Detroit HAD to make this trade?

To create payroll flexibility moving forward. No way they could've extended Cabrera AND Scherzer with Fielder's money still on the books.

[yeezus]

To create payroll flexibility moving forward. No way they could've extended Cabrera AND Scherzer with Fielder's money still on the books.

If they're keeping 40 mil of it, how much more flexibility is it?
The Rangers pretty much had to trade Kinsler and received a guy who could potentially hit 40+ homers.
I think it's good for both teams honestly, but I don't see it as bad for Texas at all.

[nsacpi]

I think the Tigers also want to sign one of Choo/Beltran/Granderson to play left. This makes it easier for them to do.

[clvclv]

If they're keeping 40 mil of it, how much more flexibility is it?
The Rangers pretty much had to trade Kinsler and received a guy who could potentially hit 40+ homers.
I think it's good for both teams honestly, but I don't see it as bad for Texas at all.

The flexibility comes in the later years...they're paying the cash to Texas up front, and Kinsler will be off their books 3 years sooner. Simply backload Scherzer/Cabrera deals a little until Kinzler/Nathan/Napoli/potential OF signing are off the books.

If they decided to dedicate all their new national TV deal revenue to pay Kinsler and Nathan, they just saved plenty of money for the Cabrera and Scherzer extensions.

[nsacpi]

they're paying the cash to Texas up front

Are you sure? Maybe they are going to pay 5M of his salary for the next six years. Even if they pay it up front for accounting purpose, a payment like that should be prorated.

[clvclv]

Are you sure? Maybe they are going to pay 5M of his salary for the next six years. Even if they pay it up front for accounting purpose, a payment like that should be prorated.

Would certainly expect them to absorb it all up front regardless of how they shuffle the books...send $2 million plus their TV check to Texas, whatever. The point is that they won't likely owe any more money to Kinsler/Nathan/V-Mart OR Fielder 4 years from now, meaning they can pay raises for Cabrera and Scherzer at that point.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Trade is now official

[goldfly]

The Tigers paid 76 million dollars for 2 years of Prince

[The Chosen One]

The Tigers paid 76 million dollars for 2 years of Prince

We paid BJ Upton 1 years worth of baseball, for 2-3 weeks worth of actual production.

[tululush]

Hahahahaha!

We paid BJ Upton 1 years worth of baseball, for 2-3 weeks worth of actual production.

[cajunrevenge]

Holy ****balls Batman! I like the deal for the Rangers, Kinsler was an albatross of a contract and with the money from Detroit they only pay 4 million more over the next 4 years than they would have paid Kinsler. Despite Fielder's down year I think hitting in the bandbox in Texas will help him a great deal.

[thethe]

Holy ****balls Batman! I like the deal for the Rangers, Kinsler was an albatross of a contract and with the money from Detroit they only pay 4 million more over the next 4 years than they would have paid Kinsler. Despite Fielder's down year I think hitting in the bandbox in Texas will help him a great deal.

Yup, this was a great deal for the Rangers.

[zitothebrave]

Tigers slam dunk win this trade. Not that this is a bad trade for the Rangers, but they've now taken on a fat 1B with 7 years on his contract. Tigers basically get bailed out of a terrible contract and get a good player at a position of need.

Sure Fielder could rebound and it's a good short term move for Texas, but they'll have a load of a 1B making 24 million in 2020.

[zitothebrave]

Holy ****balls Batman! I like the deal for the Rangers, Kinsler was an albatross of a contract and with the money from Detroit they only pay 4 million more over the next 4 years than they would have paid Kinsler. Despite Fielder's down year I think hitting in the bandbox in Texas will help him a great deal.

Fielder is gonna be 30, look at what happened to Ryan Howard, Albert, Pujols, Mark Teixeira, etc. when they got into their 30s. Big men in baseball don't last too long. Now the Rangers will be paying fielder about 18M a year in the most likely giant decline phase of his career. Also fielder is in much worse physical health in the eye test than Howard, Pujols and Tex, the latter 2 were never fat.

[clvclv]

Tigers slam dunk win this trade. Not that this is a bad trade for the Rangers, but they've now taken on a fat 1B with 7 years on his contract. Tigers basically get bailed out of a terrible contract and get a good player at a position of need.

Sure Fielder could rebound and it's a good short term move for Texas, but they'll have a load of a 1B making 24 million in 2020.

Awfully short-sighted statement IMO. There's absolutely no reason to think that Fielder wouldn't still be a monster DHing in that park until the end of the deal.

Given the continually evolving economic conditions in the game, I don't personally see a huge difference in paying Fielder $24 million to DH in Arlington in 2020 and paying David Ortiz $15 million to DH in Boston in 2014.

[zitothebrave]

Awfully short-sighted statement IMO. There's absolutely no reason to think that Fielder wouldn't still be a monster DHing in that park until the end of the deal.

Given the continually evolving economic conditions in the game, I don't personally see a huge difference in paying Fielder $24 million to DH in Arlington in 2020 and paying David Ortiz $15 million to DH in Boston in 2014.

If your lone hope for this contract not being a complete and Total bust is to compare him to David Ortiz who's a much much better and more complete hitter, you're in trouble. Ortiz for starters has more power. Infact at 37 Ortiz's iso was .255. Fielder has exceeded that number 3 times in his career.. That .255 was the 5th lowest in Ortiz's 11 seasons in boston.

Fielder could be like Ortiz, he could be a mold breaker who plays well into his mid-late 30s. But I wouldn't be 130 million dollars on that being the case.

One more point of comparison with Ortiz and Fielder, in the like 20 years that david ortiz has data on he's played in 704 games at 1B, most of them in theminors, but in the majors he's played 2054 innings at 1B. Fielder has been in baseball for 12 years, and has logged 1680 games at 1B, in the majors he's logged 11,028 innings. Neither of those numbers include the post season, but that should show you how much more fielding wear Fielder has compared to Ortiz.

Not to mention FIelder is 5'11 275 and Ortiz now (at maybe his heaviest) is 6'4 250

Typically in baseball there are 4 positions who don't age well, 2B, C, CF, and big first basemen.

[thethe]

Awfully short-sighted statement IMO. There's absolutely no reason to think that Fielder wouldn't still be a monster DHing in that park until the end of the deal.

Given the continually evolving economic conditions in the game, I don't personally see a huge difference in paying Fielder $24 million to DH in Arlington in 2020 and paying David Ortiz $15 million to DH in Boston in 2014.

Winner!

Fielder is going to absolutely crush the ball in Texas. This was a great move for them. Kinsler is in decline and we all know what happens to most second baseman after the age of 30.

[zitothebrave]

f

Winner!

Fielder is going to absolutely crush the ball in Texas. This was a great move for them. Kinsler is in decline and we all know what happens to most second baseman after the age of 30.

Let's look at over the last 5 years data on 1B over 30 years old.

For that group you have only 2 guys with an fWAR over 10. Pujols, and Youkilis. Same timeframe with 2B you have 5 2B over that limit,

When you stack the top 5 it's clear to see the winner (for fairness, PA in parenthesis)

1B

Pujols - 15.8 (2464)
Youkilis - 14.0 (2167)
Teixeira - 9.7 (1983)
Swisher - 9.7 (1893)
Berkman - 9.1 (2022)

2B

Utley - 23.9 (2545)
Zobrist - 17.5 (2040)
Scutaro - 13.7 (3050)
Phillips - 11.9 (1964)
Uggla - 10.6 (2513)

2B falling off the cliff at 30 does happen, but not as fiercely as 1B.

And for fairness I'll include DHs as well

Ortiz - 13.0 (2821)
Victor Martinez - 10.6 (2473)


I'll stop there as it gets very sad very fast (hint, number 6 is Russell Branyon)

[thethe]

For the last three yeras Kinsler has been an awful hitter away from Texas. I can only imagine how awful he will be hitting in Detroit half the time. I understand why both teams made the deal. It makes sense but I just think that the Rangers got the better end of it.

Also, your first baseman above all had various injuries. If Fielder starts to get hurt then I agree but I can't predict an injury to a guy who has always been healthy.

[zitothebrave]

Here are the 2 articles Cameron at Fangraphs wrote, first from the Tigers perspective, second from the Rnagers

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/tiger...t-even-better/

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/range...be-determined/

Honestly I think both teams are better in the immediate future for making this trade.

As the Cameron article states. The tigers will use this money to get a guy, hopefully they're not dumb enough to pay it to Scherzer. If they bring in Choo, or anyone else who's an improvement they're set.

Rangers add a bat that they need but more importantly free up a spot for Profar. If Profar gets to his potential that alone will make the deal be fine for Texas on the production side.

That said, FIelder is fat, and Texas got him for a similar value player and 30M in cash. Brilliant trade for Detroit. They save a ton of money and get better.

Miggy should be better at a better defensive position and a position that doesn't wear on his body as much. They can play Castellanos at 3B. They found someone to replace Omar, now they have the cash to go out and get someone as well. Great trade for the Tigers.