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Thread: Francisco Cervelli a Brave?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapate50 View Post
    There was a pitcher from NYY that called him the best he'd ever thrown to when the Pirates picked him up. Can't remember who.

    Anyone notice Flowers is REALLy late getting set back there? Its like a tick he's picked up and is doing all this unnecessary movement as the pitcher is getting set to deliver?

    Also- dropping strikes is a pet peeve of mine. Really grinds my gears if ya know what I mean.
    It may be just me getting annoyed with the past balls lately, but yeah, he does seem to be getting a little too cute back there. Almost like he’s trying to take pitch framing to new heights and all the effort is causing the mishaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    you seem to think Flowers is bad. he's put up 1.7 WAR in 67 games.
    This year? Yeah, he’s not very good. -0.2 bWAR. Framing is important, but I think Fangraphs overrates it right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung31 View Post
    This year? Yeah, he’s not very good. -0.2 bWAR. Framing is important, but I think Fangraphs overrates it right now.
    But BR doesn't considerate at all. I can understand if you want to argue he's somewhere in the middle of the fWAR and bWAR. But he absolutely has not been a negative player this year overall, although he has been pretty terrible since Contreras flexed on him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBrave View Post
    There seems to be a huge misconception that the main value a catcher provides is with the bat. It's arguable that pitch framing/game calling/handling pitching staff is way more critical.
    I think people are more up in arms about leading the league in passed balls

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung31 View Post
    This year? Yeah, he’s not very good. -0.2 bWAR. Framing is important, but I think Fangraphs overrates it right now.
    They currently have him at 12.3 framing runs above average which translates to about 1.2 wins. I think the reason why so many people believe these services overrate framing is because its something that is very difficult, if not impossible, to recognize with the naked eye on a consistent basis. But just because the value is hidden doesn't mean that it isn't there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanieAntics View Post
    They currently have him at 12.3 framing runs above average which translates to about 1.2 wins. I think the reason why so many people believe these services overrate framing is because its something that is very difficult, if not impossible, to recognize with the naked eye on a consistent basis. But just because the value is hidden doesn't mean that it isn't there.
    True, but he has led the league in passed balls and isn't good at throwing out runners either. So the question comes down to whether or not his pitch framing and game calling have made up enough for that. I'd say it has overall but you'd still like to see him cut down on all the passed balls, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung31 View Post
    This year? Yeah, he’s not very good. -0.2 bWAR. Framing is important, but I think Fangraphs overrates it right now.
    Yo bWAR is a clownWAR, bro.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Yo bWAR is a clownWAR, bro.
    It’s really the same as fWAR for position players outside of catchers, bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung31 View Post
    It’s really the same as fWAR for position players outside of catchers, bro.
    They still use different formulas for all their components but hitting is more or less the same. Base running and fielding can be different and as we know don't including pitching framing for bWAR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    They still use different formulas for all their components but hitting is more or less the same. Base running and fielding can be different and as we know don't including pitching framing for bWAR.
    I know that. They both get to relatively the same place with position players is what I was saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung31 View Post
    It’s really the same as fWAR for position players outside of catchers, bro.
    And here I thought we were talking about a catcher.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    And here I thought we were talking about a catcher.
    Well maybe you missed what I said about framing.

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    Did we ever officially sign this guy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Braves1976 View Post
    True, but he has led the league in passed balls and isn't good at throwing out runners either. So the question comes down to whether or not his pitch framing and game calling have made up enough for that. I'd say it has overall but you'd still like to see him cut down on all the passed balls, etc.
    Its been demonstrated several times that framing is about 10x more valuable than blocking or throwing out baserunners. Its not ideal to have a guy with a ton of passed balls and a noodle arm, but if you have to choose between a framer and a thrower/blocker, you take the framer every time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung31 View Post
    Well maybe you missed what I said about framing.
    Saw it; disregarded it, as I’m skeptical that framing is being overrated. But even if it is, I don’t think it’s overrated by enough to suggest a healthy Cervelli is more productive than Flowers circa 2019.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Saw it; disregarded it, as I’m skeptical that framing is being overrated. But even if it is, I don’t think it’s overrated by enough to suggest a healthy Cervelli is more productive than Flowers circa 2019.
    Leave the board bet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freshmaker View Post
    Did we ever officially sign this guy?
    And 20 minutes later, the answer is yes


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    Cervelli about to ball out.

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    Start em tonight

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    I like it!!

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