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Thread: Official Offseason Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
    To put a number to how little Graterol manages to pitch, his IP totals by season:

    2015: 11 (as a starter)
    2016: 0
    2017: 40 (as a starter)
    2018: 102 (as a starter)
    2019: 70 2/3 (as a starter until they made him a reliever after the year's second DL stint)
    That's fine... adding Maeda still doesn't really move the needle for the Twins... sorry

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    5 or 6 WAR worth of surplus value can take many forms. And that's the expected value for Maeda over the four remaining years of his contract.

    The only team that did well in the wheeling and dealing yesterday was the Red Sox.

    Twins did next best.

    Angels and Dodgers not so good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    5 or 6 WAR worth of surplus value can take many forms. And that's the expected value for Maeda over the four remaining years of his contract.

    The only team that did well in the wheeling and dealing yesterday was the Red Sox.

    Twins did next best.

    Angels and Dodgers not so good.
    The Angels got one year of Pederson, a solid 2 WAR pitcher under control through 2023 who can slot in as a reliever or spot starter, and a high ceiling 19 year old OFer for a young utility IFer with a good glove and light bat.

    And the value for Maeda is fine... but it doesn't really improve the Twins

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    5 or 6 WAR worth of surplus value can take many forms. And that's the expected value for Maeda over the four remaining years of his contract.

    The only team that did well in the wheeling and dealing yesterday was the Red Sox.

    Twins did next best.

    Angels and Dodgers not so good.

    Yeah I'm not liking any of the Dodgers moves. Pederson and Verdugo likely put up about 6 WAR themselves. Maeda and Price are probably a wash production wise, even though I'd bet on Price having the better year. I know the 6 WAR is more valuable coming from 1 player than 2 players, but I just don't believe the total value added for 2020 is worth the future cost.

    It seems like the Pederson deal was done entirely to get under the 208 million threshold. But geez, it certainly appears like the Dodgers got bent over on this one. Pederson, Stripling, and Pages and the only return is Rengifo? Granted, I also know next to nothing about Rengifo, but that's an awful lot to give up for a guy who, on the surface, looks like a Kike Hernandez clone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zbhargrove View Post
    The Angels got one year of Pederson, a solid 2 WAR pitcher under control through 2023 who can slot in as a reliever or spot starter, and a high ceiling 19 year old OFer for a young utility IFer with a good glove and light bat.

    And the value for Maeda is fine... but it doesn't really improve the Twins
    I think I might rather have Stripling than Maeda to be honest. At least Stripling is younger and has some upside to his advantage.


    Edit: on second thought, scratch that. Stripling was older than I originally thought.
    Last edited by Carp; 02-05-2020 at 01:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    I think I might rather have Stripling than Maeda to be honest. At least Stripling is younger and has some upside to his advantage.


    Edit: on second thought, scratch that. Stripling was older than I originally thought.
    I'd rather have Stripling than Maeda... I find it hard to come to the conclusion that the Angels did bad here.

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    The Angels did fantastic here. The Red Sox did fantastic here. I'm higher on what the Twins did than some on here, because I really value extremely cheap control over 2-3 win players. Getting that kind of production for 3 million a year makes your team better, period.

    I'm not a big fan of what the Dodgers did here. They did good to get one year of Mookie while keeping their top prospects, but Verdugo, Pages, Maeda, Pederson, taking on Price's contract, etc is a pretty high price to pay for one year of Mookie. I think they improved, but I don't think they improved by as much as some others do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanieAntics View Post
    The Angels did fantastic here. The Red Sox did fantastic here. I'm higher on what the Twins did than some on here, because I really value extremely cheap control over 2-3 win players. Getting that kind of production for 3 million a year makes your team better, period.

    I'm not a big fan of what the Dodgers did here. They did good to get one year of Mookie while keeping their top prospects, but Verdugo, Pages, Maeda, Pederson, taking on Price's contract, etc is a pretty high price to pay for one year of Mookie. I think they improved, but I don't think they improved by as much as some others do.
    Half of Price's contract... still I get your drift. I think the Dodgers know they overpaid, but its hard to argue adding Betts and Price to your starting lineup without giving up any of your elite prospects other than Verdugo

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    Quote Originally Posted by zbhargrove View Post
    I'd rather have Stripling than Maeda... I find it hard to come to the conclusion that the Angels did bad here.
    Oh definitely. I don't think it was a huge overpay by the Dodgers, given that Joc is a rental, but I would definitely say the Halos got the better end of the deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    Oh definitely. I don't think it was a huge overpay by the Dodgers, given that Joc is a rental, but I would definitely say the Halos got the better end of the deal.
    I was just perplexed by nsacpi's opinion that the Angels didn't do very well value wise in this trade.

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    I should also say that Ross Stripling is an underrated piece for the Angels. He's not a world beater, but he should be pretty good for the Angels and provide some stability for either their bullpen or their rotation. I think they'll value his versatility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zbhargrove View Post
    I was just perplexed by nsacpi's opinion that the Angels didn't do very well value wise in this trade.
    Yeah I like the Angel's side of this trade. The only team I'm skeptical of after this deal is the Dodgers, even though they got the best player. I think its possible that they struggle with depth after these deals, and depth is one of the things that made them so good in the past. But its also possible that their close to the majors top prospects are able to effectively fill that depth void.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zbhargrove View Post
    I was just perplexed by nsacpi's opinion that the Angels didn't do very well value wise in this trade.
    With Stripling's inclusion it looks better. So I'll revise my assessment to the Dodgers coming off worse in both trades. There is a certain logic to what they tried to do. But the other teams did better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zbhargrove View Post
    Half of Price's contract... still I get your drift. I think the Dodgers know they overpaid, but its hard to argue adding Betts and Price to your starting lineup without giving up any of your elite prospects other than Verdugo

    the Dodgers apparently will end up having Price for 3/48m. That seems very reasonable for someone that has put up 2.5 wins while dealing with injuries. The Dodgers depth and analytics means they can pamper him a bit and the move to the NL figures to make things easier on him. Taking that salary back isn't even an imposition.

    They take the long term hit of losing Verdugo and whatever Pages might be down the road. But all in all, the Dodgers haven't messed up their balance sheet or the farm.

    They've added the second best player in baseball to their lineup. You can argue whether they really needed to do that, but to me it is pretty clear that it helps a lot. The one area of concern that the trades open up for them is what happens if Pollock is injured again?

    They're taking a big shot without doing anything much that is going to put them in jeopardy in the future.

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    The Braves add short term stars.

    The Dodgers add short term superstars.

    Teams like the Dodgers don't value 2-3 win players the same way smaller market teams do because the Dodgers can just go out and buy that type of player any time they want.

    When trying to improve a 106 win team, the only way to do so is to acquire players like Betts who consolidate even more WAR into limited roster spaces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    The Braves add short term stars.

    The Dodgers add short term superstars.

    Teams like the Dodgers don't value 2-3 win players the same way smaller market teams do because the Dodgers can just go out and buy that type of player any time they want.

    When trying to improve a 106 win team, the only way to do so is to acquire players like Betts who consolidate even more WAR into limited roster spaces.
    I think AA will be in a position to make a similar trade next off-season. It could even be argued that everything he did this off-season was to set up that possiblity. Lindor and Bryant are two possible targets that come to mind.
    I WANT NOTHiNG. I WANT NOTHiNG.

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    Braves have won their arbitration case vs Greene and he will be paid $6.25m this season
    Mark Bowman's reports carry a lot of gravity

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanforlife88 View Post
    Braves have won their arbitration case vs Greene and he will be paid $6.25m this season

    Gonna blow the savings on a pizza party!

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    Also, James Paxton had back surgery and will be out for 3-4 months....ouch
    Mark Bowman's reports carry a lot of gravity

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    The Braves add short term stars.

    The Dodgers add short term superstars.

    Teams like the Dodgers don't value 2-3 win players the same way smaller market teams do because the Dodgers can just go out and buy that type of player any time they want.

    When trying to improve a 106 win team, the only way to do so is to acquire players like Betts who consolidate even more WAR into limited roster spaces.
    They did it all for the Mookie.

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