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Thread: MLB suspends Astros GM and Manager for a year, yuge fine and takes away draft picks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    On the one hand, a single team used technology to improperly gain what is essentially an asymmetrical scouting advantage. They did this over a two-year span (though you can be suspicious and say three-year span), and only gained this advantage in home games (coincidentally, they've been one of the best road-hitting teams over that span, but not an especially good home-hitting team).

    On the other hand, a large-but-unknowable number of players over a roughly twenty-year span (if not longer) were engaged in a market of underground pharmaceuticals, using a complex regimen to gain improper physical benefits (strength, but even more importantly, stamina and bounce-back from injury); in so doing, they affected not only the results of entire games, seasons, playoffs, and championships—to a precisely-unknowable but nonetheless-certain extent—while also casting a malignant shadow over their entire era, not to mention throwing innumerable asterisks into the record-books.

    I was trolling when I said, "I'm pro-cheating," mostly because I think the moralizing responses to all this have been a little much (though, again, the Astros certainly acted improperly in their extension of digital technology into asymmetrical real-time scouting benefits). Nonetheless, anyone who thinks their "sign stealing" shenanigans rise anywhere close to the level of impropriety and malfeasance and unfairness steroids and HGH introduced into the game is either painfully obtuse, painfully suffering from recency bias, or painfully born-yesterday.
    Truth bomb

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    The MLBPA flat-out denied Manfred's claim that they requested immunity for players.

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    Clique Leader weso1's Avatar
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    I can't be the only one that's a little bit happy that the Astros cheated the Dodgers and Yankees out of a potential title.
    From your favorite message board poster (me).

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    Carp (Yesterday), jpx7 (02-19-2020), Snowman (Yesterday), Tapate50 (Yesterday)

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    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weso1 View Post
    I can't be the only one that's a little bit happy that the Astros cheated the Dodgers and Yankees out of a potential title.
    Underrated point.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    Shift Leader CyYoung31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Underrated point.
    Weso has been on fire lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    I was trolling when I said, "I'm pro-cheating," mostly because I think the moralizing responses to all this have been a little much (though, again, the Astros certainly acted improperly in their extension of digital technology into asymmetrical real-time scouting benefits). Nonetheless, anyone who thinks their "sign stealing" shenanigans rise anywhere close to the level of impropriety and malfeasance and unfairness steroids and HGH introduced into the game is either painfully obtuse, painfully suffering from recency bias, or painfully born-yesterday.
    to be clear i don't think this. i have a big issue with steroids.
    however i think what Houston did is really bad, and a whole lot different than normal sign stealing, and they should be harshly punished.
    "This is the end of my presidency. I'm ****ed." - Donald J. Trump, innocent and totally exonerated man, upon hearing a special counsel has been appointed to investigate him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    to be clear i don't think this. i have a big issue with steroids.
    however i think what Houston did is really bad, and a whole lot different than normal sign stealing, and they should be harshly punished.
    I agree it's bad and different than normal sign stealing and they deserve punishments, but I don't believe you can expect to do much to the players. They also aren't the first team to use technology to steal signs. The algorithms and computer programs sound sophisticated, though aside from scouting data, I'm not sure how useful it is to sign stealing, unless teams are constantly changing signs. Maybe I'm missing something here, but it still boils down to relaying fastballs and breaking balls in real time.

    Post-season bans are stupid, as that only hurts the sport even worse. Taking away their trophy also seems futile. You can't take away the experience and emotions that the fans and players had when they won the WS. Are you gonna take the Red Sox 2018 trophy away as well? They were caught using their replay room to steal signs in 2018 too.
    Last edited by Carp; Yesterday at 09:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    I agree it's bad and different than normal sign stealing and they deserve punishments, but I don't believe you can expect to do much to the players. They also aren't the first team to use technology to steal signs. The algorithms and computer programs sound sophisticated though aside from scouting data, I'm not sure how useful it is to sign stealing, unless teams are constantly changing signs. Maybe I'm missing something here, but it still boils down to relaying fastballs and breaking balls in real time.

    Post-season bans are stupid, as that only hurts the sport even worse. Taking away their trophy also seems futile. You can't take away the experience and emotions that the fans and players had when they won the WS. Are you gonna take the Red Sox 2018 trophy away as well? They were caught using their replay room to steal signs in 2018 too.
    i don't really disagree with anything you said here other than the last sentence of the first paragraph. sure, it boils down to that i guess, but the huge difference to me is players figuring it out (usually after getting on base without it) vs. some staffer with a camera figuring it out and relaying it. a lot is fair to me player to player but when you start adding in staffers with cameras and computers you're going too far.
    "This is the end of my presidency. I'm ****ed." - Donald J. Trump, innocent and totally exonerated man, upon hearing a special counsel has been appointed to investigate him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    i don't really disagree with anything you said here other than the last sentence of the first paragraph. sure, it boils down to that i guess, but the huge difference to me is players figuring it out (usually after getting on base without it) vs. some staffer with a camera figuring it out and relaying it. a lot is fair to me player to player but when you start adding in staffers with cameras and computers you're going too far.
    I agree. My only point was that having a staffer to use technology to steal and/or relay signs isn't a new phenomena in the MLB. It's been confirmed that several teams from baseball's history have engaged in such behavior, most famously the 1951 Giants. The Astros' system may have been more elaborate and ultimately more efficient, but the end result is still the same: relaying fastballs and breaking balls.

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