The Coronavirus, not the beer

[thethe]

If only we had opened up Easter of 2020 and promoted good health and therapeutics....

[thethe]

[thethe]

Hahahaha

They definitely know what the mRNA vaccines will do long term in humans.

[striker42]

If only we had opened up Easter of 2020 and promoted good health and therapeutics....

This is probably a fair bit more than can be attributed to shutdowns. I can think of some other factors.

First, there's probably been an increase in the number of people who have suffered from these symptoms quietly who now finally are willing to get help. I definitely feel that the atmosphere has changed since before the pandemic with it being more okay to admit you're not okay. This is a good thing. People shouldn't be suffering in silence because their brain chemistry is off.

Second, I think the fact that basically everyone has lost someone they love to Covid hasn't been great for mental health either. It wouldn't surprise me if this was the single biggest factor.

Then there's the stress from living through a pandemic. Even if you're low risk, we all have loved ones who are high risk.

Did shutdowns have an impact? I have no doubt they did. But I would posit they played a much smaller role than other factors.

[acesfull86]

https://apnews.com/article/coronavir...9104b323a54f6f


UTRECHT, Netherlands (AP) — Protests broke out in a northern Dutch city Saturday night as a new coronavirus lockdown imposed amid soaring infections forced bars and restaurants to close at 8 p.m.

Dutch broadcaster NOS reported that hundreds of young people gathered in a central square in Leeuwarden, 140 kilometers (85 miles) north of Amsterdam. Video showed them setting off fireworks and holding flares billowing smoke. NOS reported that riot police later moved in to push the protesters off the square.

…

Nearly 85% of the Dutch adult population is fully vaccinated, but on Thursday the country’s public health institute recorded 16,364 new positive tests in 24 hours — the highest number of any time during the pandemic that has killed more than 18,600 people in the Netherlands.

Caretaker Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced the partial lockdown Friday and said it would run for at least three weeks, saying his government wants to “deliver a hard blow to the virus.”

—————

How are supposedly rational, smart, free Western democracies still playing the lockdown card? 85% of the population vaccinated, still having record cases. It’s long past time we accept this is something we’re going to have to learn to live with.

[msstate7]

https://apnews.com/article/coronavir...9104b323a54f6f


UTRECHT, Netherlands (AP) — Protests broke out in a northern Dutch city Saturday night as a new coronavirus lockdown imposed amid soaring infections forced bars and restaurants to close at 8 p.m.

Dutch broadcaster NOS reported that hundreds of young people gathered in a central square in Leeuwarden, 140 kilometers (85 miles) north of Amsterdam. Video showed them setting off fireworks and holding flares billowing smoke. NOS reported that riot police later moved in to push the protesters off the square.

…

Nearly 85% of the Dutch adult population is fully vaccinated, but on Thursday the country’s public health institute recorded 16,364 new positive tests in 24 hours — the highest number of any time during the pandemic that has killed more than 18,600 people in the Netherlands.

Caretaker Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced the partial lockdown Friday and said it would run for at least three weeks, saying his government wants to “deliver a hard blow to the virus.”

—————

How are supposedly rational, smart, free Western democracies still playing the lockdown card? 85% of the population vaccinated, still having record cases. It’s long past time we accept this is something we’re going to have to learn to live with.

Humans like to think they're in control.

[thethe]

This is probably a fair bit more than can be attributed to shutdowns. I can think of some other factors.

First, there's probably been an increase in the number of people who have suffered from these symptoms quietly who now finally are willing to get help. I definitely feel that the atmosphere has changed since before the pandemic with it being more okay to admit you're not okay. This is a good thing. People shouldn't be suffering in silence because their brain chemistry is off.

Second, I think the fact that basically everyone has lost someone they love to Covid hasn't been great for mental health either. It wouldn't surprise me if this was the single biggest factor.

Then there's the stress from living through a pandemic. Even if you're low risk, we all have loved ones who are high risk.

Did shutdowns have an impact? I have no doubt they did. But I would posit they played a much smaller role than other factors.

People have dealt with death since the beginning of time.

I'm not going to say that people passing of COVID isn't playing into this but I would argue that its much less than the impact of completely changing the paradigm of how humans have interacted for thousands of years.

[striker42]

Striker. There is zero information on what mRNA vaccines do long term in the human body

This is incorrect. There are no longitudinal studies done on what mRNA vaccines will do long term but that's an awfully restrictive look at information on long term effects. We have a lot of information about what happens to mRNA in the body, how long it stays around, how it's broken down. We also know how long the spike protein sticks around until your body develops antibodies and destroys it. We know what antibodies do once generated.

So saying we have zero information is wrong. We have zero experience but we have tons of information that can inform our decisions. If we had to wait until 40 year longitudinal studies were completed on every new treatment we'd end up doing way more harm than we're preventing in the name of safety.

[thethe]

This is incorrect. There are no longitudinal studies done on what mRNA vaccines will do long term but that's an awfully restrictive look at information on long term effects. We have a lot of information about what happens to mRNA in the body, how long it stays around, how it's broken down. We also know how long the spike protein sticks around until your body develops antibodies and destroys it. We know what antibodies do once generated.

So saying we have zero information is wrong. We have zero experience but we have tons of information that can inform our decisions. If we had to wait until 40 year longitudinal studies were completed on every new treatment we'd end up doing way more harm than we're preventing in the name of safety.

So how much of that knowledge informed the health apparatus that the vaccines would be 100% effective?

How much of that knowledge informed us that vaccinated people couldn't catch or spread COVID?

I'm just flabbergasted how you can see all these pivots in real time and actually have faith they truly know what this vaccine will do long term in the human body.

[striker42]

People have dealt with death since the beginning of time.

I'm not going to say that people passing of COVID isn't playing into this but I would argue that its much less than the impact of completely changing the paradigm of how humans have interacted for thousands of years.

I disagree. It's not dealing with people passing. It's dealing with people passing in a sudden way. Sudden death was normal for much of human history but it has become far less common in the modern world. Our expectation is that we'll have longer with our loved ones and that there will be a slow decline to the end during which we'll be able to say goodbye. Being denied that is more damaging now than it has ever been.

Having people who are older but healthy with 20+ good years left in front of them being ripped away in a matter of a couple weeks is devastating.

The paradigm of human interaction has been shifting to digital for a while. People still had a significant amount of the interaction they're used to. They were denied the in person contact but even that really didn't last all that long for most people.

Also, the number of people who were isolated is somewhat offset by the number of people who got to spend more time with their families.

Lockdowns have been a factor but they really should only represent a fairly small factor. There are other things that are far more impactful.

[thethe]

The median age of people dying from COVID in most places is higher than the average age of death.

This idea that hordes of people are dying when they have 20+ years to live is not true. Its happening but the majority of people that are dying are old and unhealthy.

[sturg33]

https://apnews.com/article/coronavir...9104b323a54f6f


UTRECHT, Netherlands (AP) — Protests broke out in a northern Dutch city Saturday night as a new coronavirus lockdown imposed amid soaring infections forced bars and restaurants to close at 8 p.m.

Dutch broadcaster NOS reported that hundreds of young people gathered in a central square in Leeuwarden, 140 kilometers (85 miles) north of Amsterdam. Video showed them setting off fireworks and holding flares billowing smoke. NOS reported that riot police later moved in to push the protesters off the square.

…

Nearly 85% of the Dutch adult population is fully vaccinated, but on Thursday the country’s public health institute recorded 16,364 new positive tests in 24 hours — the highest number of any time during the pandemic that has killed more than 18,600 people in the Netherlands.

Caretaker Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced the partial lockdown Friday and said it would run for at least three weeks, saying his government wants to “deliver a hard blow to the virus.”

—————

How are supposedly rational, smart, free Western democracies still playing the lockdown card? 85% of the population vaccinated, still having record cases. It’s long past time we accept this is something we’re going to have to learn to live with.

Because it's not about public health. The tyrants have found their excuse to impose their will one people and are taking it.

[thethe]

Because it's not about public health. The tyrants have found their excuse to impose their will one people and are taking it.

And nobody is questioning a thing.

The vaccines do absolutely nothing to prevent spread and yet we are mandated to vaccinate? Explain that one....

[sturg33]

And nobody is questioning a thing.

The vaccines do absolutely nothing to prevent spread and yet we are mandated to vaccinate? Explain that one....

The lecturing buffoon was cheering Australia's measures, while saying US universities need to throw kitchen sinks at healthy fully vaccinated 20 year olds...

It's pathetic that an old wannabe tyrant is supportive of demanding young people pay for his fears.

[thethe]

The lecturing buffoon was cheering Australia's measures, while saying US universities need to throw kitchen sinks at healthy fully vaccinated 20 year olds...

It's pathetic that an old wannabe tyrant is supportive of demanding young people pay for his fears.

Remember when he said it was disinformation to say that vaccinated people spread the virus the same as unvaccinated even though the CDC even said that the viral loads were the same?

The hole that these people have dug themselves into, and I fear one of our rational friends is falling into that hole, just does not allow them to see the facts as they stand today.

[striker42]

So how much of that knowledge informed the health apparatus that the vaccines would be 100% effective?

How much of that knowledge informed us that vaccinated people couldn't catch or spread COVID?

I'm just flabbergasted how you can see all these pivots in real time and actually have faith they truly know what this vaccine will do long term in the human body.

First, the vaccine was designed for Alpha and it was phenomenally effective against Alpha. Delta replicates several times faster and can often outpace your immune system's initial ability to react and so you get sick before you fight it off. You just tend to get much less sick. If we designed a vaccine specifically for Delta, it would probably be much more effective but it would also take a year to get it through the process. The fact that the current vaccines still offer significant protection against Delta is pretty impressive.

Next, no one with half a brain would say vaccines would be 100% effective. There's always a percentage of people who don't get a good immune response from a vaccine for whatever reason. The original goal was efficacy of 50%. We got way better than that.

I'm not saying we know everything about the vaccine just like we don't know everything about the virus. With any vaccine (and with any virus) things like the strength of immunity, how the immunity will protect against other strains, and how long the immunity will last are difficult to predict. That doesn't mean we don't know a tremendous amount about what the vaccine does, it just means there are variables that can't be predicted.

You also neglect to consider that the vaccine was tested in volunteers first. Scientists were able to inject the vaccine and ensure it acted as designed. Seeing that it did allowed them to be significantly more confident in its safety.

Finally, the biggest risk of long term danger in any treatment is from long term use of the treatment. It's the treatment causing a tiny, undetectable amount of damage each time it's administered. So over thousands of uses it all adds up to severe issues. Let's take your nightmare scenario and say the vaccine became something that's administered every 6 months for life. You're talking about on average 150-160 doses administered in a lifetime. That's not that many. If the vaccine caused a small, imperceptible amount of damage each time it was administered, then 150 shots likely wouldn't add up to much. If it's causing enough damage that 150 doses would be a serious risk, that's something that would be caught as a known side effect.

We know way more about this vaccine than you think we do.

[striker42]

The median age of people dying from COVID in most places is higher than the average age of death.

This idea that hordes of people are dying when they have 20+ years to live is not true. Its happening but the majority of people that are dying are old and unhealthy.

Over 137,000 Americans aged 50-64 have died from Covid. A lot of these people had 20+ years of good life left.

[thethe]

Over 137,000 Americans aged 50-64 have died from Covid. A lot of these people had 20+ years of good life left.

I'd agree that some had that. Another large portion were morbidly obese that have had health issues for many years and would have continued to have those same issues post COVID.

[thethe]

Next, no one with half a brain would say vaccines would be 100% effective. There's always a percentage of people who don't get a good immune response from a vaccine for whatever reason. The original goal was efficacy of 50%. We got way better than that.

Fauchi said this very thing or at best NEAR 100% which is in fact a LIE>

[thethe]

You also neglect to consider that the vaccine was tested in volunteers first. Scientists were able to inject the vaccine and ensure it acted as designed. Seeing that it did allowed them to be significantly more confident in its safety.

Who is neglecting that?

Its still the same premise that WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE VACCINE WILL DO LONG TERM IN THE HUMAN BODY.