In this country I think New Orleans is coming close.
But overseas, Wuhan has been overwhelmed. Northern Italy. Large parts of Spain. Sweden looks like it could be headed for disaster. The UK is looking very bad.
And if the curve flattening concept prevents other places from being overwhelmed that's a good thing.
Last edited by nsacpi; 04-09-2020 at 11:15 AM.
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
This is actually what is going on. Spectacular work.
I wouldn't lump all of Europe together. I once was on a flight from Frankfurt to London. I asked the woman next to me what she was doing in Germany. She told me she worked and lived in London but the medical system in Germany was much better and that she went to see her doctor and dentist while there. I forget what her nationality was, but she was neither British nor German.
I would not want the British health care system. A friend of mine had a heart attack while working in London. His experience with British health care was not a good one.
But I think we can learn from Germany, France, Switzerland, FINLAND and some of the others.
Last edited by nsacpi; 04-09-2020 at 11:30 AM.
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
The Imperial College report did have worst case scenarios in this country that showed deaths in the millions if nothing was done. I think it is a good practice to have that kind of worst case scenario laid out. It doesn't mean they believe it is likely to happen. When someone comes along and presents it as such, I have to conclude they are either not familiar with the report or acting in bad faith.
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
Metaphysicist (04-09-2020)
I think the question is would the American people have been willing to accept 3 months plus of job losses, self imprisonment, closed schools, cancelled vacations, etc, if they weren't scared to oblivion from these models?
What the social outcomes from this? I can guarantee we will have civil liberty restricting new laws. The debt were taking on is unfathomable. The federal reserve intervention is on a scale even I couldnt have imagined. You think we had wealth I equality before...
The attack on the first amendment marches forward
Being done during a pandemic too
"For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman
"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"
If most of these models were off by a factor of 4 and the expected deaths with nothing being done was 1.5M then I think the question is should we have sacrificed what we did for 375K people dying? Absolutely
But, then the mitigation measures should have been much different such as stay at homes for vulnerable segments of the population.
Its clear we could have navigated this much better with a smarter approach and yet we still are keeping the country shut down for no reason.
Natural Immunity Croc
Who was scared by these models? Very few have read them. I believe Birx and Fauci sat down with chosen one and presented him with the models.
But having said that, I think even if government had not acted large parts of the economy would have shut down. Sports leagues took actions on their own without government prompting. Going out to the restaurant is something many people would have stopped doing even without any government guidance. Either way the economic damage would be enormous. With and without government guidance. I think it might have been even worse and more chaotic without government guidance. If people are dying in large numbers and government does nothing, I think there is a potential cost in terms of public confidence and social cohesion that can become very large in economic terms.
So I don't see this as one of "accepting" these costs. No one speaks in terms of "accepting" the costs of an earthquake or tsunami. It is something that is there, and we have to manage it.
Civil liberties are not an absolute. Throughout history people have weighed them against other desirable things. And in times of war or plague, people do give some of them up.
Last edited by nsacpi; 04-09-2020 at 11:59 AM.
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
Metaphysicist (04-09-2020), Runnin (04-09-2020)
A case can be made for doing a lot of things differently. But I don't think we are still keeping the country shut down for no reason. There are benefits and costs to doing it that have to be weighed. There are some very specific pieces of information that I think need to be taken into account. What has happened to R naught the past two or three weeks. That's a key variable for determining when to ease up on some of these restrictions.
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
Louisiana Pastor: ‘True Christians Do Not Mind Dying’ Of Coronavirus If Infected At Church
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...b61ada15c1823e
"For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman
"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"
We get it. You hate religious people
interesting conclusion from that article
I mean dumb as ****
But interesting
Last edited by goldfly; 04-09-2020 at 12:48 PM.
"For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman
"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"