The Coronavirus, not the beer

[nsacpi]

“ The FDA and CDC deserve a lot of criticism. But they are accountable ultimately to our political representatives and ultimately to us as voters.”

Wishful thinking

We do have a republic. A large sometimes unwieldy one. But the FDA and CDC, like any other agency, is ultimately accountable to us and our elected representatives. Imperfections and all.

[nsacpi]

I think what we have seen is that externalities are a challenge for libertarian ideology.

At some level we are all libertarians. If someone with halitosis breathes on us it is unpleasant. But we don't impose a mandate that everyone should brush their teeth. At that level we are all libertarians. We accept people should be free to not brush their teeth and live with the consequences. It is their business. Even though there are some externalities.

At the other end of the spectrum is a deadly contagious disease killing thousands of our fellow citizens per day. Most of us stop being libertarians by this point. The externalities are so large we are willing give up some of our freedoms to get the contagion under control. And understand that carving out opt-outs for dissidents (70 million of them in this particular instance) puts all of our efforts to get the contagion under control in jeopardy. Of course the ideal is that it should be voluntary. But if voluntary doesn't do the job then we accept that coercive measures and incentives such as mandates have to be used.

Of course the purists see a slippery slope extending from a vaccine mandate to a toothbrushing mandate (presumably with regular and intrusive inspections by the state to make sure everyone is brushing). That's what you get when ideology trumps common sense.

[acesfull86]

We do have a republic. A large sometimes unwieldy one. But the FDA and CDC, like any other agency, is ultimately accountable to us and our elected representatives. Imperfections and all.

Can’t wait every 2-4 years to hopefully maybe get some accountability (doubtful)…we’re at war.

If Joe Never-vax is a drunk driver killing people, then these agencies are behind the wheel of tanks and on their 2nd bottle of vodka

[nsacpi]

Can’t wait every 2-4 years to hopefully maybe get some accountability (doubtful)…we’re at war.

If Joe Never-vax is a drunk driver killing people, then these agencies are behind the wheel of tanks and on their 2nd bottle of vodka

Government incompetence often has deadly consequences. From that it does not follow we should avert our gazes from the homicidal choices being made by the pro-covid traitors in our midst. Their behavior is causing more death than drunk driving. By an order of magnitude.

[acesfull86]

Government incompetence often has deadly consequences. From that it does not follow we give a free pass to the homicidal choices being made by the pro-covid traitors in our midst.

It’d be nice if they were held to a higher standard than Joe Public in Kansas who is making a (poor) decision on what to put in his body.

The government’s failures have killed people and deserve the lion’s share of the attention.

[acesfull86]

I think what we have seen is that externalities are a challenge for libertarian ideology.

At some level we are all libertarians. If someone with halitosis breathes on us it is unpleasant. But we don't impose a mandate that everyone should brush their teeth. At that level we are all libertarians. We accept people should be free to not brush their teeth and live with the consequences. It is their business. Even though there are some externalities.

At the other end of the spectrum is a deadly contagious disease killing thousands of our fellow citizens per day. Most of us stop being libertarians by this point. The externalities are so large we are willing give up some of our freedoms to get the contagion under control. And understand that carving out opt-outs for dissidents (70 million of them in this particular instance) puts all of our efforts to get the contagion under control in jeopardy. Of course the ideal is that it should be voluntary. But if voluntary doesn't do the job then we accept that coercive measures and incentives such as mandates have to be used.

Of course the purists see a slippery slope extending from a vaccine mandate to a toothbrushing mandate (presumably with regular and intrusive inspections by the state to make sure everyone is brushing). That's what you get when ideology trumps common sense.

We’re seeing the slippery slope in real time in Australia…if only it was a toothbrush mandate…

[nsacpi]

We’re seeing the slippery slope in real time in Australia…if only it was a toothbrush mandate…

They have a republic too. And can elect a new set of tyrants when the terms of the current tyrants are up. Meanwhile far fewer Australians are dying than in our country. But I guess we are avoiding that dreaded toothbrushing mandate by drawing a line in the sand against the vaccine mandate.

I'm still waiting for my libertarian friends around here to say yeah or nay on rolling back the school mandates that currently exist for other vaccines. Those too would seem to me to be part of that slippery slope. Yeah or nay to the tyranny of the chickenpox vaccine mandate? What sayeth y'all?

[nsacpi]

crickets

i would think someone concerned about the slippery slope would be strongly opposed to the chickenpox vaccine mandate

[sturg33]

How many times do I have to answer your same repetitive questions.

Just bc you can't remember anything doesnt mean I'm not answering

[acesfull86]

If folks are still worried about their risk of dying from covid even after taking a vaccine, they’re more than free to impose an Australia like house arrest on themselves. Work from home. Order food and answer the door in a hazmat suit. Externalities exist, but in many cases, reducing the impact of that externality is within the scope of the individual actor.

I say nay on rolling back school vaccines, but in my preferred world where we have 100% school choice and there’s a private school out there willing to serve unvaccinated students, I say have at it. We allow religious exemptions in most states already.

[thethe]

If folks are still worried about their risk of dying from covid even after taking a vaccine, they’re more than free to impose an Australia like house arrest on themselves. Work from home. Order food and answer the door in a hazmat suit. Externalities exist, but in many cases, reducing the impact of that externality is within the scope of the individual actor.

I say nay on rolling back school vaccines, but in my preferred world where we have 100% school choice and there’s a private school out there willing to serve unvaccinated students, I say have at it. We allow religious exemptions in most states already.

COVID Cowards think they are going to tell the majority what to do.

We will see how that works out.

Violence is growing in Australia and will follow the rest of the world if pathetic fools like nsacpi continue to push their fears on others.

[nsacpi]

i dunno...chickenpox vaccine mandates seems squarely located on that slippery slope...look where it got us now! if not for it no one would be pushing the covid shots on anyone

but i have some good news for y'all

in a few years mandates for covid shots will be looked at in the same way that mandates for chickenpox vaccines are looked at today...tyranny will have once more triumphed...i guess that's not good news for some

[nsacpi]

If folks are still worried about their risk of dying from covid even after taking a vaccine, they’re more than free to impose an Australia like house arrest on themselves. Work from home. Order food and answer the door in a hazmat suit. Externalities exist, but in many cases, reducing the impact of that externality is within the scope of the individual actor.

I say nay on rolling back school vaccines, but in my preferred world where we have 100% school choice and there’s a private school out there willing to serve unvaccinated students, I say have at it. We allow religious exemptions in most states already.

actually the risk of someone vaccinated dying due to an encounter with someone unvaccinated is about the same as a sober person dying from an encounter with a drunk driver

and of course the risk of someone unvaccinated dying from an encounter with another unvaccinated person is orders of magnitude higher than the risk of one drunk killing another drunk...the triumph of a very strange ideology

[thethe]

Nope. Just blame MAGA

[acesfull86]

actually the risk of someone vaccinated dying due to an encounter with someone unvaccinated is about the same as a sober person dying from an encounter with a drunk driver

and of course the risk of someone unvaccinated dying from an encounter with another unvaccinated person is orders of magnitude higher than the risk of one drunk killing another drunk...the triumph of a very strange ideology

The risk isn’t there if the individual self imposes the Australia playbook

BTW, how about those with a religious exemption? By your standards, we’re giving people a free pass to drive drunk.

[nsacpi]

The risk isn’t there if the individual self imposes the Australia playbook

BTW, how about those with a religious exemption? By your standards, we’re giving people a free pass to drive drunk.

Not really. Our country has a long and I might add admirable history of accommodating divergent religious beliefs. Crackpot and homicidal ideological beliefs not so much.

[thethe]

Notice he doesn't address the self imposition of Australian rules

[sturg33]

We've had prominent politicians and "specialists" endorse every side of every possible question on Covid, often with the same specialists and politicians changing sides without data to support the new position.

If you want more people to trust the vaccine, you should be angry at the first people to cast doubts on it. You voted for them.

If you want more people to wear masks, you should be angry with Fauci for telling them not to. You idolize him.

If you want more voluntary testing, you should be disgusted with the CDC. Yet you get angry when their ever changing stances aren't treated as Gospel.

I'm reminded of this post that got crickets from the buffoon.

Can't believe all these people we are supposed to blindly believe were pro drunk driving Ving when Trump was Prez

[thethe]

nsacpi would have been anti-vaxxer #1 if 2020 wasn't stolen

Everyone knows it

[acesfull86]

Not really. Our country has a long and I might add admirable history of accommodating divergent religious beliefs. Crackpot and homicidal ideological beliefs not so much.

We grant religious exemptions for vaccines…we’d never grant a religious exemption to allow believers to drive drunk. Makes me think maybe the analogy doesn’t work…