The Coronavirus, not the beer

[sturg33]

This vaccine needs to be stored at -70 degrees Celsius and needs to be administered in two doses. It will pose a lot of logistical challenges.

The storing and dosage are easier with the Moderna and Johnson & Johnson vaccines. Hopefully, those pan out too. And maybe some of the others.

It is a bit lucky that the science that allowed for such rapid vaccine development ripened very recently. If this virus had struck 5 or 10 years ago, we'd still be fumbling around at a much earlier stage of vaccine development.

Removing the government out of the equation was crucial

[Carp]

There was no effective response to a hyper contagious disease. The economic damages of the lockdowns far exceeded the loss of life from the virus. This is not just a fringe idea anymore and you know it.

This was not trumps fault. This was not marcons fault. Heck, even with some bad nursing home policies it’s not even cuomos fault.

The whole of the blame rests with the CCP and it’s a shame that politics got in the way of the obvious.

This is false, and it's appalling you still believe this with a vaccine so close. Lockdowns literally save thousands of lives. Potentially hundreds of thousands of lives. Perhaps if we acted sooner, we have saved even more lives.

[zbhargrove]

Trump has been defeated.

Its now time to hunt for good news to make the US look good under Biden

I completely admit... I did what you usually do. I saw a tweet and ran with it. My bad.

[nsacpi]

This is false, and it's appalling you still believe this with a vaccine so close. Lockdowns literally save thousands of lives. Potentially hundreds of thousands of lives. Perhaps if we acted sooner, we have saved even more lives.

i believe both very poorly chosen one and Pence (in the debate) have bragged about saving a million lives from the lockdown in March/April...they are not wrong...i was surprised they didn't make this point more often during the campaign

[thethe]

This is false, and it's appalling you still believe this with a vaccine so close. Lockdowns literally save thousands of lives. Potentially hundreds of thousands of lives. Perhaps if we acted sooner, we have saved even more lives.

You just have a complete ignorance about what lockdowns have done to the world. It’s appalling you aren’t aware.

[Carp]

Before we start praising warp speed for this, the Pfizer vaccine development had nothing to do with warp speed.

Pfizer head of vaccine development Dr. Kathrin Jansen told the NY Times: “We were never part of the Warp Speed ... We have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.”

Yet here is Pence, basically taking credit for the whole thing:
"HUGE NEWS: Thanks to the public-private partnership forged by President @realDonaldTrump, @pfizer announced its Coronavirus Vaccine trial is EFFECTIVE, preventing infection in 90% of its volunteers."

I don't think this is helpful. I'm sure Warp Speed had at least some effect here, even if only indirectly.

[Krgrecw]

i believe both very poorly chosen one and Pence (in the debate) have bragged about saving a million lives from the lockdown in March/April...they are not wrong

Do you believe that trump stopping flights from China when he did saved more lives than if Biden didn’t stop the same flights at the time?

[zbhargrove]

I don't think this is helpful. I'm sure Warp Speed had at least some affect here, even if only indirectly.

I just walked it back and already said I just saw a tweet and ran with it. It is still not as cut and dry as the Trumpy's want it to be, but credit where credit is due. Its not like sturg doesn't just post every garbage Tweet he sees.

[nsacpi]

Do you believe that trump stopping flights from China when he did saved more lives than if Biden didn’t stop the same flights at the time?

yes...closing borders and limiting travel have turned out to be a useful strategy in many places...we didn't do it particularly well, but that's another matter

[thethe]

The problem with the US response is that China didn’t tell the world about it for months. It had unchecked spread in the US for months before we knew it was here.

End of discussion.

Nothing the administration could have done with testing and tracing would have made a difference.

[nsacpi]

The problem with the US response is that China didn’t tell the world about it for months.

The head of the CDC spent his entire day on New Year's Day talking to his Chinese counterpart about it. His family got upset about it because he didn't spend any time with them. At one point his Chinese counterpart broke down crying. So we have known about this very early on and that it was very serious. What you are claiming is a myth.

[zbhargrove]

The head of the CDC spent his entire day on New Year's Day talking to his Chinese counterpart about it. His family got upset about it because he didn't spend any time with them. At one point his Chinese counterpart broke down crying. So we have known about this very early on and that it was very serious. What you are claiming is a myth.

This is true... I remember before the New Year seeing hyped stories everywhere about the virus taking over China and South Korea.

[zbhargrove]

The problem with the US response is that China didn’t tell the world about it for months. It had unchecked spread in the US for months before we knew it was here.

End of discussion.

Nothing the administration could have done with testing and tracing would have made a difference.

Probably under the orders of Biden even though he wasn't the nominee yet.

[thethe]

The head of the CDC spent his entire day on New Year's Day talking to his Chinese counterpart about it. His family got upset about it because he didn't spend any time with them. At one point his Chinese counterpart broke down crying. So we have known about this very early on and that it was very serious. What you are claiming is a myth.

There is evidence that the first cases in the IS was q4 2019. I have pasted that evidence in here countless times.

It was known by the ccp in 2019 but they allowed their people to travel around the world but not within the greater China. This is all public information now.

[drewdat]

So to Pfizer, Warp Speed meant that they had a guaranteed buyer for a vaccine during a global pandemic? Wow, seems pretty instrumental.

At a surface level, it seems to me that they assumed all of the risk with their $2B investment. There was no guarantee they would be one of the earliest successful candidates, or that their vaccine would even prove effective.

Not to knock Warp Speed. Apparently this vaccine has to be transported and stored at -70 C, so hopefully some other candidates come through the pipeline as well, and if so, there are probably some that it would hold more than tenuous responsibility for.

[nsacpi]

The medical authorities in Wuhan were slow to report it. But they were slow to report it to the authorities in Beijing. There was no conspiracy. But there was bureaucratic inertia and fear of upsetting higher ups. There were doctors in Wuhan the whole time banging the drum trying to sound the alarm. But the medical bureaucracy responded very poorly. They engaged in a form of denialism and wishful thinking. Which cost time and lives.

[nsacpi]

So to Pfizer, Warp Speed meant that they had a guaranteed buyer for a vaccine during a global pandemic? Wow, seems pretty instrumental.

At a surface level, it seems to me that they assumed all of the risk with their $2B investment. There was no guarantee they would be one of the earliest successful candidates, or that their vaccine would even prove effective.

Not to knock Warp Speed. Apparently this vaccine has to be transported and stored at -70 C, so hopefully some other candidates come through the pipeline as well, and if so, there are probably some that it would hold more than tenuous responsibility for.

I think Warp Speed was a bit more important to Moderna.

This is a pretty good article describing how fast Moderna moved to develop a vaccine. It's a great read.

https://www.bostonmagazine.com/healt...virus-vaccine/

[striker42]

The medical authorities in Wuhan were slow to report it. But they were slow to report it to the authorities in Beijing. There was no conspiracy. But there was bureaucratic inertia and fear of upsetting higher ups. There were doctors in Wuhan the whole time banging the drum trying to sound the alarm. But the medical bureaucracy responded very poorly. They engaged in a form of denialism and wishful thinking. Which cost time and lives.

It cost the chance to stop the virus. A virus this contagious with no human resistance is going to be able to be contained for a very, very short amount of time. The Chinese had a chance but wasted it. After that, with the interconnectedness of the modern world, it was going to become a pandemic. Anyone who thinks early action by the US could have stopped the pandemic here is fooling themselves.

Wired had good article about the Chinese covering up COVID. Worth a read https://www.wired.com/story/inside-t...virus-coverup/

The US's failure was in not preparing better for the pandemic. We should have seen the freight train coming in January and gotten prepared. In truth, we should have a standing level of preparedness against something like this. Pandemics are going to happen. It's just a matter of when.

[acesfull86]

It looks like those strategies based upon the idea of delaying deaths until a vaccine or better treatments come along might turn out to be the correct ones. In broad strategic terms. Was always a gamble. But imo a gamble that correctly took into account the odds.

Everyone dies. But it's nice to have medical progress that allows us to kick the can down the road. That's what it's all about when it comes to medicine.

Both Pfizer and Moderna are using a new technology that has never been used to produce a vaccine before. It holds great promise for other areas of medicine.

One things for sure, this crisis will give academics (of many disciplines) something to chew on for many years to come

[nsacpi]

It cost the chance to stop the virus. A virus this contagious with no human resistance is going to be able to be contained for a very, very short amount of time. The Chinese had a chance but wasted it. After that, with the interconnectedness of the modern world, it was going to become a pandemic. Anyone who thinks early action by the US could have stopped the pandemic here is fooling themselves.

Wired had good article about the Chinese covering up COVID. Worth a read https://www.wired.com/story/inside-t...virus-coverup/

The US's failure was in not preparing better for the pandemic. We should have seen the freight train coming in January and gotten prepared. In truth, we should have a standing level of preparedness against something like this. Pandemics are going to happen. It's just a matter of when.

Even with a vaccine on the horizon, I think there is still a case for investing in our testing infrastructure so we can respond better next time.

There are these rich, elite institutions--sports leagues, companies like Amazon--who have shown what is possible through high frequency testing.