The Coronavirus, not the beer

[msstate7]

https://www.pennlive.com/opinion/202...s-opinion.html

Lockdown protesters have a moral duty to forgo medical care in favor of those who followed the rules | Opinion
Posted May 11, 2020

Across the country, protestors have stormed state capitals demanding a return to business as usual.

Their behavior is dangerous to everyone.

Protesters who violate basic safety measures should, at a minimum, sign a pledge expressing their willingness to forgo scarce care in the name of their political ideals and for the benefit of their fellow Americans. Perhaps the leaders of the protests can set up a website where protesters can publicly attest to the pledge.

....

Yet thousands of protesters appear to lack a full sense of the gravity of this once-in-a-century pandemic, which has crashed across the globe leaving death and battered economies in its wake. Or, they view the economic consequences of social distancing as disproportionate to the health benefits. The protesters fly flags and carry signs accusing their governors of heavy-handedness, of unjustifiably quashing their freedom and limiting their liberty. They interpret statewide restrictions not as essential public health strategies but as unconstitutional assaults on their individual liberty.

The unprecedented public health measures do indeed limit liberty and this does, and should, raise difficult questions about how to balance freedom with other values such as security and health. But during pandemics, where millions of lives are potentially at stake, the balance swings in favor of sensible and temporary restrictions on liberty.

If the protesters can’t be persuaded that they are wrong and their behavior is dangerous, they should own up to their political commitment and sign and carry a. pledge stating they decline all medical care to treat COVID-19, should they fall ill if resources are being rationed. Patrick Henry’s famous proclamation, carried by many protestors, is “give me liberty or give me death” not “give me liberty and if that doesn’t work out so well give me a scarce ventilator.”

Well that's different

[cajunrevenge]

He isnt wrong but the timing is suspect. This is the same attitude we should have to church goers. If you want to all get together then turn down medical services if you get sick. There is nothing less essential than church.

[weso1]

so what would constitute proof one way or another of your hypothesis

My statement was not a hypothesis.

[Carp]

We already know at the top IFR is .3%. We will see it go to .1% and maybe lower.

Yeah, that's also false. But thanks for playing.

[thethe]

Yeah, that's also false. But thanks for playing.

Cdc just said it.

You'll see when all the data gets finalized.

You all were wrong. Its OK.

[Carp]

Cdc just said it.

You'll see when all the data gets finalized.

You all were wrong. Its OK.

LOL, you've literally critcized the CDC the entire time, but now you take their word as gold. Typical thethe. I'm guessing if China came out in favor of Trump and Ukraine collusion and Burisma, you'd reverse course on the CCP too.

Experts at John Hopkins finds the IFR to be between .5% and 1%. Recent anitbody testing support those opinions, by the way.

In NY and NJ, the IFR is legitimately .6 or higher based on antibody testing. We know this for a fact. In Indiana, antibody testing suggests an IFR of .58. And in smaller communities like Albany, GA and Chelsea, MA, we also know the IFR must be around the same. Also, an IFR of .6 or higher is completely inline with the majority of the world, especially any country that has been hit hard.

[thethe]

Keep believing Carp.

Mis coded deaths. Malfeasance in nursing homes.

Moving forward this virus will be a baby.

[thethe]

You guys should just admit you were wrong.

[acesfull86]

I won't be surprised if backlash grows here in the coming days and weeks. We were scolded and lectured to for months now, and most of us went along and played ball, even in the cases where we knew certain policies were ridiculous and arbitrary. Then, this past week, how many thousands of people took to the streets and congregated in cities across the country, throwing caution to the wind? Those people decided what they were doing was important and essential enough to be worth increasing risk to society. For those with businesses shuttered or for people out of work, I don't blame them if they make the same calculation. If I were in their shoes, I certainly wouldn't want to hear it anymore.

[thethe]

I won't be surprised if backlash grows here in the coming days and weeks. We were scolded and lectured to for months now, and most of us went along and played ball, even in the cases where we knew certain policies were ridiculous and arbitrary. Then, this past week, how many thousands of people took to the streets and congregated in cities across the country, throwing caution to the wind? Those people decided what they were doing was important and essential enough to be worth increasing risk to society. For those with businesses shuttered or for people out of work, I don't blame them if they make the same calculation. If I were in their shoes, I certainly wouldn't want to hear it anymore.

Its been widely inconsistent and nonsensical.

So many just played along because they were terrified.

Its a sad statement on society since the data was clear since late march this was not that big of a deal.

[nsacpi]

I won't be surprised if backlash grows here in the coming days and weeks. We were scolded and lectured to for months now, and most of us went along and played ball, even in the cases where we knew certain policies were ridiculous and arbitrary. Then, this past week, how many thousands of people took to the streets and congregated in cities across the country, throwing caution to the wind? Those people decided what they were doing was important and essential enough to be worth increasing risk to society. For those with businesses shuttered or for people out of work, I don't blame them if they make the same calculation. If I were in their shoes, I certainly wouldn't want to hear it anymore.

The use of the passive tone to elide facts is unbecoming of you. I would expect it of other posters around here.

Your post seems to be a complaint about hypocrisy and inconsistency. Yet there is not person or group of person against whom your complaint holds up.

"We were scolded and lectured..." by whom may I ask.

"Many thousands took to the streets..." are these the people who scolded and lectured...offer some evidence if you believe this to be so

And then this "If I were in their shoes, I would certainly not want to hear it anymore." Hear it from whom? The people who scolded and lectured or the thousands who took the streets? Are they the same person?

So if Jack gives me advice on something and Jill does the opposite of Jack's advice should my position be that "I don't want to hear it anymore."

I look forward to some better posting from you.

[acesfull86]

Its been widely inconsistent and nonsensical.

So many just played along because they were terrified.

Its a sad statement on society.

I don't blame people for going along, especially in the face of some brand new existential threat. In the past few months, information has aged poorly by the hour, so if people chose to err on the side of caution and tried to keep others safe, more power to them. I've played by the rules, but I'm one of the lucky ones who has really felt no direct negative impact despite being right in the middle of the hottest hot spot. If the supermarket wants me to put on a mask and follow their one way signs up and down the aisles, I'll go along, even if I think it's probably silly.

But for the people on the sidelines who have patiently played along while watching their livelihoods slip away in the name of "we're all in this together," I don't blame them one iota if they now say enough's enough. If I owned a barber shop in Brooklyn, I'd no longer want to hear from De Blasio or Cuomo how I'm killing grandmas if I open my store to (safely) serve customers...I'd tell them to look at the pictures of those congregated in the city and take their gripes up with them.

[thethe]

The use of the passive tone to elide facts is unbecoming of you. I would expect it of other posters around here.

Your post seems to be a complaint about hypocrisy and inconsistency. Yet there is not person or group of person against whom your complaint holds up.

"We were scolded and lectured..." by whom may I ask.

"Many thousands took to the streets..." are these the people who scolded and lectured...offer some evidence if you believe this to be so

And then this "If I were in their shoes, I would certainly not want to hear it anymore." Hear it from whom? The people who scolded and lectured or the thousands who took the streets? Are they the same person?

So if Jack gives me advice on something and Jill does the opposite of Jack's advice should my position be that "I don't want to hear it anymore."

I look forward to some better posting from you.

Oh...how elitist of you for not agreeing with someone.

Very unbecoming but par for the course with you.

[nsacpi]

If actions that are inconsistent and damaging are what we are looking for the example I would hold up are the tweets to liberate Michigan and Virginia on the same day that the White House put out recommendations regarding staying at home and social distancing. This would be an example where such criticism is warranted since the person to whom those tweets belong is the same one in charge of policy coming out of the White House.

[nsacpi]

I wait for any poster here to share the identity of a public official who has recommended social distancing or wearing a mask and then switched positions as far as encouraging people to get out there and protest.

What I have heard is public officials decry violence and urge that people be peaceful.

This is NOT the same as telling people to go out there and congregrate in the middle of a pandemic. And yes I would humbly suggest it is bad faith posting to conflate these things.

[thethe]

I wait for any poster here to share the identity of a public official who has recommended social distancing or wearing a mask and then switched positions as far as encouraging people to get out there and protest.

What I have heard is public officials decry violence and urge that people be peaceful.

This is NOT the same as telling people to go out there and congregrate in the middle of a pandemic. And yes I would humbly suggest it is bad faith posting to conflate these things.

Are you saying the outcry for people not social distancing was as loud in those two situations?

[nsacpi]

tick tock tick tock

[nsacpi]

still waiting for a name...tick tock tick tock

did Anthony Fauci say get out there and protest folks...its important...screw the virus

tick tock tick tock

[nsacpi]

tick tock tick tock

it shouldn't be that hard...it is a big country

come on folks

si se puede

[nsacpi]

google is there to help

tick tock tick tock