Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: The Last Dance

  1. #1
    It's OVER 5,000! Runnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    9,076
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,746
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,413
    Thanked in
    1,663 Posts

    The Last Dance

    Has everyone seen this?

    Very interesting and well-done, imo, but I've only watched about half so far. Surprised at all the F-bombs they let into the final cut, but glad they did. I knew of Pippen's displeasure but not the extent of it and certainly not the deep dislike of Jerry Krause by the team leaders. Seems a little unfair considering he made all the trades and decisions that made that team. Without him they don't have one championship.

    The frank interviews and recollections paint a very realistic portrait of all the players, coaches and management, exposing plenty of warts for all to see. Kudos for that.

    But I was a Jordan/Bulls fan during those years. I wonder what others think of this documentary.
    Last edited by Runnin; 05-22-2020 at 08:52 PM.
    FF - BB, BB, 2B, HR, 2B, HR, 1B, BB, BB, 1B, BB, BB, HR

  2. #2
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    18,193
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,092
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,910
    Thanked in
    2,054 Posts
    A lot of players aren't happy with their portrayals. And nobody is happy with how Jordan portrayed Pippin. Not shocking that Jordan would bring down Pippin as the one slight against his claim to being the solo greatest player ever was he played with one of the best small forwards ever, so knocking him down a few pegs goes a long way to making MJ look better.

    I will say something and walk away

    Bulls lost Jordan and Pippin and co carried them to game 7 of the conference semi-finals.

    LeBron leaves the Cavs twice and they go from the finals or finals contenders to one of the worst teams in the NBA.
    AJ does all the other things just as well if not better than Mac - zbhargrove

    I don't think Nolan Ryan should be a poster child for mechanics - SAV

  3. #3
    Making Atlanta Great Again!
    #MAGA!

    Promises MADE, Promises KEPT!
    The Chosen One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    School of Hard Cox
    Posts
    20,812
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    7,587
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7,893
    Thanked in
    4,584 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    A lot of players aren't happy with their portrayals. And nobody is happy with how Jordan portrayed Pippin. Not shocking that Jordan would bring down Pippin as the one slight against his claim to being the solo greatest player ever was he played with one of the best small forwards ever, so knocking him down a few pegs goes a long way to making MJ look better.

    I will say something and walk away

    Bulls lost Jordan and Pippin and co carried them to game 7 of the conference semi-finals.

    LeBron leaves the Cavs twice and they go from the finals or finals contenders to one of the worst teams in the NBA.
    In fairness, when LeBron left both times, the owner said he was gonna blow up the team and did.

    When Jordan retired the first time, they still had most of that core around Pippen.
    Forever Fredi


  4. #4
    **NOT ACTUALLY RACIST
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    4,085
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    43
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    429
    Thanked in
    347 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    A lot of players aren't happy with their portrayals. And nobody is happy with how Jordan portrayed Pippin. Not shocking that Jordan would bring down Pippin as the one slight against his claim to being the solo greatest player ever was he played with one of the best small forwards ever, so knocking him down a few pegs goes a long way to making MJ look better.

    I will say something and walk away

    Bulls lost Jordan and Pippin and co carried them to game 7 of the conference semi-finals.

    LeBron leaves the Cavs twice and they go from the finals or finals contenders to one of the worst teams in the NBA.

    Jordan had final say and he either buried everyone he had a problem with or they ended up with bad edits.


    Itís Bull**** they didnít come clean on the whole baseball thing.

  5. #5
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    18,193
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,092
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,910
    Thanked in
    2,054 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by The Chosen One View Post
    In fairness, when LeBron left both times, the owner said he was gonna blow up the team and did.

    When Jordan retired the first time, they still had most of that core around Pippen.
    Cavs lost 2 other players in 2010. Delonte West and Sebastian Telfair. Telfair basically didn't play for the Cavs the year before.

    Miami lost basically no one, Wade and Bosh re-signed, and they signed Whiteside who has been great for Miami. The 17 loss differences.

    Cavs lost basically filler players after 2018, like Kendrick Perkins and Jose Calderon.

    Jordan left and the Bulls were a playoff team. Lebron left the "dream team" in Miami and Miami took a huge drop. From NBA finals to 3rd in the division and missed the playoffs.
    AJ does all the other things just as well if not better than Mac - zbhargrove

    I don't think Nolan Ryan should be a poster child for mechanics - SAV

  6. #6
    Shift Leader thethe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    39,496
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,877
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,002
    Thanked in
    2,918 Posts
    Nba contractually was much different and kucoc was signed the year jordan left so the team was still getting infusion of talent. The 95 year the bulls weren't all that good prior to Michael coming back.
    Warm feelings guy!

  7. #7
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    18,193
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,092
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,910
    Thanked in
    2,054 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Nba contractually was much different and kucoc was signed the year jordan left so the team was still getting infusion of talent. The 95 year the bulls weren't all that good prior to Michael coming back.
    They were 34-31. What team Lebron Left was .500 after he left? Heat Sign Deng after Lebron left.

    Stop acting like the reason the bulls were over .500 without Jordan was Kukoc or anyone else. It was Scottie Pippen. Jordan had the luxury of playing with one of the best SF to play the game. When you make a list of the best SF to play the game, it goes.

    1. LeBron
    2. Bird
    3. Dr. J
    4. Baylor
    5. Pippin

    Though Durant could easily pass over some of them. Jordan is great. But LeBron only had a Pippin level teammate ever once, Wade. And that Heat team was as great as any Bulls team.

    Would be an interesting battle, Jordan and Pippin vs. LeBron and Wade with 3 other equals around them, who wins. I think Pippin and Jordan wins because I think Pippin is one of the most underrated players ever because his defensive work was amazing. Question in that game is could LeBron shut down Jordan. Which I don't consider likely because Jordan is the best scorer to ever lace up sneakers.
    AJ does all the other things just as well if not better than Mac - zbhargrove

    I don't think Nolan Ryan should be a poster child for mechanics - SAV

  8. #8
    It's OVER 5,000! Runnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    9,076
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,746
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,413
    Thanked in
    1,663 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    A lot of players aren't happy with their portrayals. And nobody is happy with how Jordan portrayed Pippin. Not shocking that Jordan would bring down Pippin as the one slight against his claim to being the solo greatest player ever was he played with one of the best small forwards ever, so knocking him down a few pegs goes a long way to making MJ look better.

    I will say something and walk away

    Bulls lost Jordan and Pippin and co carried them to game 7 of the conference semi-finals.

    LeBron leaves the Cavs twice and they go from the finals or finals contenders to one of the worst teams in the NBA.
    MJ's drive, the triangle and Phil Jackson made "the team" better. Everyone around Jordan had to elevate their games. It was more of a team effort.

    Lebron's style of play, point forward and every play goes through him, stifles play and stunts the growth of his supporting cast.
    FF - BB, BB, 2B, HR, 2B, HR, 1B, BB, BB, 1B, BB, BB, HR

  9. #9
    It's OVER 5,000! Runnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    9,076
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,746
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,413
    Thanked in
    1,663 Posts
    I never knew that about Steve Kerr's dad, nor the importance of MJ's security guys.

    Pippen probably had more natural talent than Jordan. He could do everything Michael could except shoot, but he had more wing span and could elevate and get open easier. He only lacked the obsessive ambition and intensity to win about all else. And he had a couple of weak character moments.

    Karl Malone showed a lot of class going onto the bus. Detroit, not so much.
    FF - BB, BB, 2B, HR, 2B, HR, 1B, BB, BB, 1B, BB, BB, HR

  10. #10
    Sabermetric Slut
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your Mom's Basement
    Posts
    17,765
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,040
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,040
    Thanked in
    3,247 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    A lot of players aren't happy with their portrayals. And nobody is happy with how Jordan portrayed Pippin. Not shocking that Jordan would bring down Pippin as the one slight against his claim to being the solo greatest player ever was he played with one of the best small forwards ever, so knocking him down a few pegs goes a long way to making MJ look better.

    I will say something and walk away

    Bulls lost Jordan and Pippin and co carried them to game 7 of the conference semi-finals.

    LeBron leaves the Cavs twice and they go from the finals or finals contenders to one of the worst teams in the NBA.
    What? Pippen did that to himself. Sitting on the bench in the playoffs when he wasn't getting the ball and delaying his surgery on purpose were bitch moves. He then had a chance to tell his story and apologize if he felt the need to but said he would do them all over again. That's obviously his choice but that's not Jordan ****ting on him.

  11. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to thewupk For This Useful Post:

    Runnin (05-26-2020), Tapate50 (05-26-2020), The Chosen One (05-26-2020), thethe (05-26-2020)

  12. #11
    It's OVER 5,000! Tapate50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,038
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5,176
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,127
    Thanked in
    1,941 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    What? Pippen did that to himself. Sitting on the bench in the playoffs when he wasn't getting the ball and delaying his surgery on purpose were bitch moves. He then had a chance to tell his story and apologize if he felt the need to but said he would do them all over again. That's obviously his choice but that's not Jordan ****ting on him.
    This was my view of it as well.
    "No thanks, I'd rather sit in the balcony" - Abe Lincoln

  13. #12
    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,349
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,711
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,698
    Thanked in
    1,756 Posts
    who gives a **** about lebron


    for **** sake


    one of the best sports documentaries ever. was awesome. this past sunday sucked when i remembered we weren't getting any more episodes
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. It is a very great mistake to imagine that the object of loyalty is the authority and interest of one individual man, however dignified by the applause or enriched by the success of popular actions.Ē Samuel Adams

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to goldfly For This Useful Post:

    Runnin (05-27-2020), thewupk (05-27-2020)

  15. #13
    Anytime Now Frankie... acesfull86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,601
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,031
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    531
    Thanked in
    357 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin View Post
    I never knew that about Steve Kerr's dad, nor the importance of MJ's security guys.
    I knew about Kerr's dad, but I was surprised to hear that Kerr and Jordan never really talked about the fact that both of their fathers were killed. I guess it fits with Jordan's personality, but I would've thought two teammates who shared such a rare, traumatic experience would've talked about it.

  16. #14
    Anytime Now Frankie... acesfull86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,601
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,031
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    531
    Thanked in
    357 Posts
    Overall I loved the doc. I wouldn't say I heard a lot I didn't already know, but it was great to revisit that whole 90's NBA era. In the lead up to the doc, it felt like people in the know were predicting some kind of bombshell, and Jordan himself was worried about whether people would view him negatively, but for me, that moment never came. Some light hazing of Scott Burrell, but nothing worse than you'd hear in a pickup game at a city park. And the way he took any perceived slight, real or imagined, so personally, was already a known part of his legend. If anything, I came out of the doc viewing Jordan more positively.

    I know it was called the Last Dance and was based around footage saved from the '98 season, but I wanted to get a look at his post-2nd retirement life. He said at the end of the doc he wanted to get the band back together and go for #7 and it was incredibly frustrating not to get a chance. I would've liked to see how he adjusted to life and dealt with those years in between '98 and his 2nd comeback with the Wizards. Also would've loved to examine why his tenure as an executive/owner has gone so poorly, but obviously you're not going to get that from him.

    Not sure if I'm just jaded by the social media era, but for me, Jordan just comes across as more genuine than the superstars of this more recent era. He was obviously brand conscious ("Republicans buy sneakers too"), but watching the doc I always got the impression his decisions were made in the moment, driven by his intense competitiveness. The path his career took reads like a script, but didn't feel scripted.

  17. #15
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    18,193
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,092
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,910
    Thanked in
    2,054 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    What? Pippen did that to himself. Sitting on the bench in the playoffs when he wasn't getting the ball and delaying his surgery on purpose were bitch moves. He then had a chance to tell his story and apologize if he felt the need to but said he would do them all over again. That's obviously his choice but that's not Jordan ****ting on him.
    You don't know he had his chance to tell his story. This is MJ's documentary. It's an autobiography. It would be like Amazon Studios making a documentary of Jeff Bezos or Apple making a documentary on Steve Jobs.

    Pippen did the surgery late because of ****ty ownership. MJ should have applauded him because early season games are worthless.

    As far as benching himself, it was a developing moment for him. Everyone says that it was humbling to him and he would come along as a leader. And how can Jordan talk about something he wasn't involved with?

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...e-calls-snitch
    AJ does all the other things just as well if not better than Mac - zbhargrove

    I don't think Nolan Ryan should be a poster child for mechanics - SAV

  18. #16
    It's OVER 5,000! Runnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    9,076
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,746
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,413
    Thanked in
    1,663 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    You don't know he had his chance to tell his story. This is MJ's documentary. It's an autobiography.
    That's going a little far. It was not an autobiography but Jordan was the main character, as he should've been. While I'm sure he had final editing powers, he came off looking as more flawed than anyone else. Compared to MJ, even Rodman seemed more normal.
    FF - BB, BB, 2B, HR, 2B, HR, 1B, BB, BB, 1B, BB, BB, HR

  19. #17
    It's OVER 5,000! Runnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    9,076
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,746
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,413
    Thanked in
    1,663 Posts
    All the talk of MJ and golf made me curious. Although I saw it written several places and I know he plays 36 holes almost everyday, after watching his golf swing there is no way I believe he plays to a 1 or 2 handicap.

    If he ever breaks 80 with that swing it's through constant repetition and will power.
    FF - BB, BB, 2B, HR, 2B, HR, 1B, BB, BB, 1B, BB, BB, HR

  20. #18
    Making Atlanta Great Again!
    #MAGA!

    Promises MADE, Promises KEPT!
    The Chosen One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    School of Hard Cox
    Posts
    20,812
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    7,587
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7,893
    Thanked in
    4,584 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin View Post
    All the talk of MJ and golf made me curious. Although I saw it written several places and I know he plays 36 holes almost everyday, after watching his golf swing there is no way I believe he plays to a 1 or 2 handicap.

    If he ever breaks 80 with that swing it's through constant repetition and will power.
    In fairness, in the documentary the golf swings the show are from him in the 80's (although they might've showed him swinging when the Bulls were in Arizona).

    I'm sure since he retired he had way more time to focus on golf.
    Forever Fredi


  21. #19
    It's OVER 5,000! Runnin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    9,076
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,746
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,413
    Thanked in
    1,663 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by The Chosen One View Post
    In fairness, in the documentary the golf swings the show are from him in the 80's (although they might've showed him swinging when the Bulls were in Arizona).

    I'm sure since he retired he had way more time to focus on golf.
    The swings I watched on youtube were the most recent I could find. I actually like his earlier swings, more free and easy, and was expecting it to be better after all the time he's put into it. But tons of repetition can cover up a lot of flaws. That and 40 sets of clubs to choose from doesn't hurt either.
    FF - BB, BB, 2B, HR, 2B, HR, 1B, BB, BB, 1B, BB, BB, HR

  22. #20
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    18,193
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,092
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,910
    Thanked in
    2,054 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin View Post
    All the talk of MJ and golf made me curious. Although I saw it written several places and I know he plays 36 holes almost everyday, after watching his golf swing there is no way I believe he plays to a 1 or 2 handicap.

    If he ever breaks 80 with that swing it's through constant repetition and will power.
    I think you're right about repetition and will power. I mean consider that MJ is old, and basketball is very hard on the legs and back. Find the number of 60 year old former star athletes who're great at golf, I'm guessing the list is short.
    AJ does all the other things just as well if not better than Mac - zbhargrove

    I don't think Nolan Ryan should be a poster child for mechanics - SAV

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •