Race

[sturg33]

I just checked my corporate business resource groups for rural white people and came up empty. I guess it is still being developed

[sturg33]

It can’t get fixed by outside forces. Everything is available now to succeed. Most notably movements to hire minorities for the sake of diversity and not merit.

Society can do many things over long periods of time.

But the most effective and fastest resolution for improvement is the individual.

For some reason, "society is against you and white are oppressing you" doesn't come across as a message that would encourage the individual to self improve

[nsacpi]

For some reason, "society is against you and white are oppressing you" doesn't come across as a message that would encourage the individual to self improve

i'm glad to see you are coming around to the view that victimhood and grievance is not a good life philosophy

[Jaw]

Couldn't both things be true? Minority communities are impacted by a history of racism in this country and are at an economic disadvantage, have health/education systems that haven't caught up, have a lack of political power, etc. because of it. Appalachian communities have faced their own form of neglect and systemic issues, and we should strive to fix those too.

It just seems wild to me to pretend like racism has had no impact on the economic wellbeing of minority communities. Just like it seems crazy to me to pretend like sexism has had no impact on pay gaps and title gaps for women in the workplace. Just like it seems crazy to me to pretend like certain parts of the country- like Appalachia- have been given the same shot to succeed that they deserve. We have a lot of warts in this country- racism being one of many- and we should all want to fix all of those things rather than just deciding that everything is cool because women can vote and the civil rights movement happened.

Sure and I don't disagree with you. My point is that there are plenty of ways to address opportunity or the lack thereof without making it divisive. If we want to make it easier for poor black kids from single parent homes or depressed zip codes to get into a college, we can just make it easier for poor kids from single parent homes or depressed zip codes to get into college. If that problem is disproportionately effecting the black community then that policy will disproportionately favor the black community. You also get the benefit of not discriminating against the poor white kid because of their race and not causing the resentment that is going to be a natural response to that discrimination.

The problem I have with how CRT thinking is impacting the debate is similar. That school of thought is coming at everything through the lens of systemic racism. It's basically that Louder with Crowder guy sitting at a table with a sign that says "X is racist. Change my mind." Got a law that was passed anytime before the Obama administration? It's racist unless you can prove otherwise.

I think it's more reasonable and productive to see through a lens of equality. Does this law treat everyone as equals regardless of race, sex, religion? If not then address it. We have an entire branch of government that specializes in that. Instead we get analysis that says "well, black men under the age of 35 are most often punished by this law, therefore it's racist." Nonsense. Moonshining is almost exclusively done by white men over the age of 35. It's also illegal. Not because of who commits the act, but because people were drinking liquor distilled through old car radiators and because the feds want their cut. If it's mostly old white guys that break that law then that's a cultural issue and white guys should stop if they don't want to risk going to jail for it.

[nsacpi]

Sure and I don't disagree with you. My point is that there are plenty of ways to address opportunity or the lack thereof without making it divisive. If we want to make it easier for poor black kids from single parent homes or depressed zip codes to get into a college, we can just make it easier for poor kids from single parent homes or depressed zip codes to get into college. If that problem is disproportionately effecting the black community then that policy will disproportionately favor the black community. You also get the benefit of not discriminating against the poor white kid because of their race and not causing the resentment that is going to be a natural response to that discrimination.

The problem I have with how CRT thinking is impacting the debate is similar. That school of thought is coming at everything through the lens of systemic racism. It's basically that Louder with Crowder guy sitting at a table with a sign that says "X is racist. Change my mind." Got a law that was passed anytime before the Obama administration? It's racist unless you can prove otherwise.

I think it's more reasonable and productive to see through a lens of equality. Does this law treat everyone as equals regardless of race, sex, religion? If not then address it. We have an entire branch of government that specializes in that. Instead we get analysis that says "well, black men under the age of 35 are most often punished by this law, therefore it's racist." Nonsense. Moonshining is almost exclusively done by white men over the age of 35. It's also illegal. Not because of who commits the act, but because people were drinking liquor distilled through old car radiators and because the feds want their cut. If it's mostly old white guys that break that law then that's a cultural issue and white guys should stop if they don't want to risk going to jail for it.

Of course, CRT should not be the single all-encompassing lens through which American society is viewed and analyzed. There are some people who do this. But the rest of us don't have to. And policy should not be based just on that particular way of looking at issues. But I don't think the military does this. I doubt there is a school district that teaches about race entirely from the perspective of CRT. Some incorporate that perspective. But personally I don't think it is controversial to say that some of our institutions from private swimming pools and golf clubs to policing and the legal system have a certain amount of institutional racism. Our country has made a lot of progress (with notable regression in 2016-2020) and with the good will of most people will continue to do so.

[nsacpi]

On a personal note, this discussion caused me to remember what I think of as an amusing incident where I benefited from institutional racism. There is a jeweler in the diamond district that I've patronized for many years. I knew the father and used to swap jokes with him. Then when his son took over I got to know him too. A few years ago I bought something for my wife. The son told me he was giving me a discount for being Jewish. I didn't have the heart to tell him I wasn't. Besides, I didn't want to turn down the discount!

[sturg33]

All these people can do is see race

[Jaw]

Anyone else not wanting their teachers to be activists?

[goldfly]

You’re obsession of acting like the foundation to protect a certain race since the creation of this country doesn’t exist is noted and somehow cause you just exist now think it’s not still going on and needs to be repaired is noted as well

[Jaw]

You’re obsession of acting like the foundation to protect a certain race since the creation of this country doesn’t exist is noted and somehow cause you just exist now think it’s not still going on and needs to be repaired is noted as well

lol

[Jaw]

Did I do that right?

[goldfly]

Anyone else not wanting their teachers to be activists?

I suspect You have an issue with what they want to be “activists” about

And not that they are “activists”

Me and one of the few people I still talk to from high school laugh about our earth science teacher crying cause they were “forcing” her to teach about evolution. Lol

She cried in front of the class and apologized for doing it. Lol

[goldfly]

Did I do that right?

Sure

If you think so

But i can show you a document that said certain people were 3/5ths of a person so said states that didn’t think they’re ere people could still get representation to influence their will

I could show you history of compromises to allow states in and keep their slaves

I can show you Jim Crow laws

Etc etc etc

You and your ilk (it seems) think those hundreds of years of ripples have zero affect on today when people alive today lived in some of those times

But have at it

[sturg33]

Did I do that right?

Nailed it

[sturg33]

Sure

If you think so

But i can show you a document that said certain people were 3/5ths of a person so said states that didn’t think they’re ere people could still get representation to influence their will

I could show you history of compromises to allow states in and keep their slaves

I can show you Jim Crow laws

Etc etc etc

You and your ilk (it seems) think those hundreds of years of ripples have zero affect on today when people alive today lived in some of those times

But have at it

All those racist things were done by the government.

And you wanna make the government bigger and more powerful, where the majority can rule over the minority

[goldfly]

Ftr Jaw

I apologize

You might not have nailed it if fraud boy thinks you did

[nsacpi]

All those racist things were done by the government.

swimming clubs

country clubs

covenants in the deeds of houses

bakers

landlords

churches

[sturg33]

Whoa there were private racists in the past that followed the lead of our governments laws?

Shocked.

But, in the name of anti racism today, I am very glad we are returning to segregated College classes, different prices for races, and employment discrimination based on race once again.

Progressives are so good at taking us backwards

[Jaw]

Sure

If you think so

But i can show you a document that said certain people were 3/5ths of a person so said states that didn’t think they’re ere people could still get representation to influence their will

I could show you history of compromises to allow states in and keep their slaves

I can show you Jim Crow laws

Etc etc etc

You and your ilk (it seems) think those hundreds of years of ripples have zero affect on today when people alive today lived in some of those times

But have at it

I've never said they didn't have any effect on today. History can be taught without critical theory, and intersectionality discussion doesn't belong in a K-12 classroom. Kids can wasted their money on that stuff in college if they want, they don't need to use tax dollars to make kids hate themselves or each other before that.

[nsacpi]

Whoa there were private racists in the past that followed the lead of our governments laws?

Shocked.

But, in the name of anti racism today, I am very glad we are returning to segregated College classes, different prices for races, and employment discrimination based on race once again.

Progressives are so good at taking us backwards

followed the lead? what an historically inaccurate take

they fought tooth and nail against government efforts to enforce civil rights and end discrimination...from reconstruction to the present in some cases

do a little reading on how the Southern Baptists came to be...it wasn't due to government compulsion