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  1. #1661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaw View Post
    They don't live a normal life. They live a life at odds with nature and biology, with an exponentially higher chance of killing themselves.

    If your kids climb up on the roof and want to pretend to be Superman you wouldn't be accepting of it, because it's false and dangerous. This is the same thing.
    The only thing that is even open for debate regarding biology and nature is their hormones and genitalia. Everything else that people actually concern themselves with is societal. Biology doesn’t inform which bathrooms are used or who competes in which sporting events. We created all of those things, and assigned who does what or goes where based on societal norms. Saying a trans person shouldn’t be allowed to do something because of science is misleading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mqt View Post
    The only thing that is even open for debate regarding biology and nature is their hormones and genitalia. Everything else that people actually concern themselves with is societal. Biology doesn’t inform which bathrooms are used or who competes in which sporting events. We created all of those things, and assigned who does what or goes where based on societal norms. Saying a trans person shouldn’t be allowed to do something because of science is misleading.
    Society determined that each sex needed it's own sports so that women would have an opportunity. Because there are physical differences beyond hormones and genitalia that would generally preclude that from happening.
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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    I'll leave this article on Revolutionary War hero Casimir Pulaski here. I guess he/she didn't live a normal life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaw View Post
    Society determined that each sex needed it's own sports so that women would have an opportunity. Because there are physical differences beyond hormones and genitalia that would generally preclude that from happening.
    Exactly. Society can also determine if there are exceptions to be made or even if a wholesale change is warranted. It’s a societal question, not a scientific one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mqt View Post
    Exactly. Society can also determine if there are exceptions to be made or even if a wholesale change is warranted. It’s a societal question, not a scientific one.
    I used that term intentionally, to be sarcastic. "Society" did nothing but recognize anatomical facts. Women cannot compete on even ground athletically with men. That is a fact. Science and biology matter.
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    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    you have obviously never played competitive coed sports

    " if you can ball you an ball"

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    Uh huh. I'm sure Mia Hamm would have been an all star if she played for Manchester United.
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    I <3 Ron Paul + gilesfan sturg33's Avatar
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    Lol

    Something like 400 high school boys ran the 400 faster than the female world record holder last year

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    Shift Leader thethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaw View Post
    Uh huh. I'm sure Mia Hamm would have been an all star if she played for Manchester United.
    It’s all about transhumanism.

    Make us all the same so we can change what it means to be human. Individuality is the roadblock.
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    with many years as a youth coach --- many many times have seen females that compete not only at the level of male but overachieve.

    in my later playing years trans people began to play in coed sports. Ball is ball
    unless one carries another agenda to the field
    Last edited by 57Brave; 03-02-2021 at 11:06 AM.
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    I would guess no one here can run or hit like Ozzie either
    so what is your point
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    I find peoples obsession/fascination with trans people creepy to be polite
    on par with public unisex bathrooms

    I seriously doubt one engaged in supporting voter suppression is concerned with a level playing field in sports
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  13. #1673
    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mqt View Post
    Yessiree, if there’s one thing that I can’t get away from in my everyday life, it’s Trans people not leaving me alone. They are constantly in my face trans-ing.
    Lol

    No doubt
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    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Pretty sure sturg is saying Trump leaves you alone while transgenderism leads to higher suicide rates.

    Maybe I’m wrong in what he was trying to say but if that was his point I’m not sure why it’s wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Indeed.
    Holy ****

    Y’all really are stupid lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaw View Post
    I used that term intentionally, to be sarcastic. "Society" did nothing but recognize anatomical facts. Women cannot compete on even ground athletically with men. That is a fact. Science and biology matter.
    I’d tell that to the numerous examples of transgender athletes that did not win their competitions against people born as females. It’s obviously true that the best male athletes will have an advantage, but we’re talking about people undergoing hormone treatments and living life as young women. There will be some outliers where the competition is affected, but I take the stance that fostering an inclusive environment for young people is more important than who wins a children’s sporting event.

    Where you continue to lose me in the argument of science and biology is how it’s applied. There’s a debate to be had about the science, and I’m not qualified enough to have a strong opinion on it. That debate ceases to be about science when it’s being applied to social situations, and instead becomes about what we are willing to accept. I’m not looking to change your mind on whether or not transgender kids should be able to use a certain bathroom or compete in sports, but rather dispel the idea that it’s science that determines it.
    Last edited by mqt; 03-02-2021 at 01:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    with many years as a youth coach --- many many times have seen females that compete not only at the level of male but overachieve.

    in my later playing years trans people began to play in coed sports. Ball is ball
    unless one carries another agenda to the field
    A lot depends on age. At a young age you see a lot of girls outdo boys in sports. Once puberty hits, things change.

    When I was in high school, our boys JV soccer team scrimmaged our girls, best in county varsity soccer team. The boys won 14-0. As a group, the boys were far bigger, stronger, and faster.

    Sure Mia Hamm could have dribbled circles around anyone on that field, boy or girl, but it's not outliers. It's the groups as a whole.

    I don't have a dog in the trans sports fight. But thinking that high school boys and girls would be even athletically just isn't realistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mqt View Post
    I’d tell that to the numerous examples of transgender athletes that did not win their competitions against people born as females. It’s obviously true that the best male athletes will have an advantage, but we’re talking about people undergoing hormone treatments and living life as young women. There will be some outliers where the competition is affected, but I take the stance that fostering an inclusive environment for young people is more important than who wins a children’s sporting event.

    Where you continue to lose me in the argument of science and biology is how it’s applied. There’s a debate to be had about the science, and I’m not qualified enough to have a strong opinion on it. That debate ceases to be about science when it’s being applied to social situations, and instead becomes about what we are willing to accept. I’m not looking to change your mind on whether or not transgender kids should be able to use a certain bathroom or compete in sports, but rather dispel the idea that it’s science that determines it.
    Biology is a science. Biology determines sex. Gender is a post modern attempt at defining stereotypes of the sexes, a worthless term essentially invented for the grievance industry by people who think the psych field is a science.

    My stance is fairly simple. If a woman wants to wear men's jeans and a bowl cut while she chews tobacco and works on diesel engines then I applaud her. If a man wants to wear skinny jeans while he works some interior design at Starbucks then good for him. If a company has to lower their diesel mechanic standards for that woman or the design company has to alter their dress code for that guy to wear a dress, then I have a problem. If someone thinks this abnormal and unnatural behavior that results in an exponentially higher suicide rate needs to be taught and normalized in any public school then I have a problem. If anyone tries to teach this madness to my kids in school...well, we'll have an incident where other lessons will be taught.
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    "Now let's take up the minorities in our civilization, shall we? Bigger the population, the more minorities...The bigger your market, Montag, the less you handle controversy, remember that! All the minor minor minorities with their navels to be kept clean. Authors, full of evil thoughts, lock up your typewriters. They did. Magazines became a nice blend of vanilla tapioca. Books, so the damned snobbish critics said, were dishwater. No wonder books stopped selling, the critics said. But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive. And the three dimensional sex magazines, of course. There you have it, Montag. It didn't come from the Government down. There was no dictum, no declaration, no censorship, to start with, no! Technology, mass exploitation, and minority pressure carried the trick, thank God."

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  22. #1680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaw View Post
    Biology is a science. Biology determines sex. Gender is a post modern attempt at defining stereotypes of the sexes, a worthless term essentially invented for the grievance industry by people who think the psych field is a science.

    My stance is fairly simple. If a woman wants to wear men's jeans and a bowl cut while she chews tobacco and works on diesel engines then I applaud her. If a man wants to wear skinny jeans while he works some interior design at Starbucks then good for him. If a company has to lower their diesel mechanic standards for that woman or the design company has to alter their dress code for that guy to wear a dress, then I have a problem. If someone thinks this abnormal and unnatural behavior that results in an exponentially higher suicide rate needs to be taught and normalized in any public school then I have a problem. If anyone tries to teach this madness to my kids in school...well, we'll have an incident where other lessons will be taught.
    This pretty directly sums up my concern. You said yourself that we constructed gender roles around stereotypical biological behaviors. However, what ‘gender’ means day-to-day has changed over the years as society has in general. Yet, the discussion started out as being about science and cold hard facts. What I’m suggesting is that societal norms got us to a point where women wear dresses and men wear “men’s” jeans, and they can move us away from it as well, even if you disagree with the biology of someone being transgender.

    I respectfully disagree with you on whether or not it’s acceptable for someone to do certain things based on whether they were born with a penis or a vagina. I just continue to question how “the science” says I’m wrong, when it’s a matter of opinion whether or not someone should be allowed to do those things.

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