Neck is out

[Skeeter31]

Yet another reason we should see Pache and Waters this year.

Play Duvall/Culberson/Riley/Ozuna/Camargo/O'Brien out there the first two weeks then platoon Ender and Pache flanked by Acuna and Waters while Ozuna DHs.

But, keep Pache down all year, and then bring him up after the Super2 cutoff in 2021 and we gain another year of control. There’s no reason to burn his clock this year unless basically all of our OFs opt out or get hurt. I’d rather see Culberson and Ortega out there than wasting a year of Pache.

[TheBravos]

I like Nick, but I was pretty surprised he was signed back (with as many options as we had). He likely would have been a little less effective than last year.

Will it make us a tad less deep...sure. Does it have a huge impact on the team...not on the field at least. If I’m any of these older guys I opt out. That’s just common sense and that doesn’t have a real beating on the COVID mess. It’s too much to deal with when you don’t have to and your career is near its end.

[OcalaBrave]

thethe can handle his own argument.

To those that look at the reported numbers worldwide and conclude the US had the worst possible response. I'll point out that countries like India and China have over a billion people each and have reported 697K and 85K cases respectively and only 20K deaths combined. To say that is extremely unlikely is an understatement. It is further proof that free an open societies operate quite differently from other seemingly open forms of government. I'd also point out five contiguous states in the NE (NY, NJ, PA, CT and MA) account for 46% of all deaths in the US. Don't bash the response by the other 45 states just because these 5 mishandled the situation by erroneously placing the most at risk in harms way based upon the advice of experts.

[OcalaBrave]

Love the idea of using the 60 games as a break in for Pache and Waters. You can always option the kids back down to AAA next year if they can't handle it.

Its 60 games. Frenchy was a hall-o-famer for 60 games.

[NYCBrave]

Manhattan has 1.6 million people and has lost 3,105 so far. My roommate freshman year of college lives in Manhattan with his family. He was essentially trapped in his apartment for 65 days (he escaped to the Hamptons - tough life). I kept checking the deaths of individuals under 65 with no preexisting condition. At last check, probably a month ago, Manhattan had less than 25 deaths of individuals under 65 without a known preexisting condition as a result of CV-19. That number was less than the number of individuals shot to death in Manhattan during the same time period... I checked. Is it a legitimate use of police power to lock up a family of four (two girls 3 and 6) to protect them from the CV-19 threat? That likely should be moved to another thread. I believe there is ample evidence the massive death rate in NY is because Cuomo put positive cases in nursing homes believing free space in hospitals was imperative for the cases yet to come. They turned the convention center into a hospital and brought in red cross ships but the wave of hospitalizations anticipated by the experts never materialized. Meanwhile the virus ran through nursing homes housing the most at risk segments of the NY population. I'm not blaming Cuomo. He made a call based upon the information and expert opinions given to him. It likely was a bad call in hindsight. That could also likely go in another thread.

But the issue is not whether NY's lockdown was legitimate, or why is NY death rate so high, it is whether lock downs are the answer to CV-19. The comparison of NY to Florida is because one state lock down and stayed that way and the other reopened. If lock downs were the answer to CV-19, why is Florida's death rate low in comparison to other states that imposed lock downs? It could be the population density of NY as you suggest. Miami (while still one of the most densely populated areas in the US) has only half the population density of NYC (about 2.8 million people in Dade County and only 1,000 CV-19 deaths - 1/3 of Manhattan though it has more than 1 million more people). Still, if a lock down was the way to stop the spread of CV-19, when everyone is relegated to their homes (singing form their balconies and whatnot) the population density argument should be nullified unless homes being vertically integrated (high rise) instead of horizontally integrated (track), results in higher transmission. If that is the case, we should be seeing a "sick building" effect in NYC. We haven't heard of that to this point.


Why lock the thread and move it. The thread is about a player choosing not to play preemptively because of fear of CV-19. Discussion about the reasonableness of the players fear of reopening increasing CV-19 is relevant to the discussion.

But see you're missing the whole point. And I live in NYC myself. The problems that happened here in March were young people were getting it, and then bringing it home to their at risk family they live with, and they were the ones dying. So the whole point of the whole thing is transmitting it to others who are more at risk.

[NYCBrave]

thethe can handle his own argument.

To those that look at the reported numbers worldwide and conclude the US had the worst possible response. I'll point out that countries like India and China have over a billion people each and have reported 697K and 85K cases respectively and only 20K deaths combined. To say that is extremely unlikely is an understatement. It is further proof that free an open societies operate quite differently from other seemingly open forms of government. I'd also point out five contiguous states in the NE (NY, NJ, PA, CT and MA) account for 46% of all deaths in the US. Don't bash the response by the other 45 states just because these 5 mishandled the situation by erroneously placing the most at risk in harms way based upon the advice of experts.

So just out of curiosity, while those five states you named were mishandling it in March, what were the other 45 states doing properly to mitigate it? Did South Dakota and Montana cut off flights from China and Italy? That doesn't explain the situation at all.

[thethe]

But see you're missing the whole point. And I live in NYC myself. The problems that happened here in March were young people were getting it, and then bringing it home to their at risk family they live with, and they were the ones dying. So the whole point of the whole thing is transmitting it to others who are more at risk.

Thats not what happened. 43% of deaths were in nursing homes because of bad policy. The rest was because we didn't know of the virus and millions use the subways daily.

[50PoundHead]

Markakis was clearly on the downhill side of his career when we signed him. He's given us some moments, but he wasn't the guy he was in Baltimore. I haven't had that big an issue with him and actually enjoyed watching him hit (even though I get the two-bouncer to second issue). His biggest sin is that he replaced Heyward and I think a ton of fans expressed their disfavor with the Heyward trade by dumping on Markakis.

[Southcack77]

Thats not what happened. 43% of deaths were in nursing homes because of bad policy. The rest was because we didn't know of the virus and millions use the subways daily.

New York has a slightly lower than average nursing home death rate.

https://freopp.org/the-covid-19-nurs...s-3a47433c3f70

[Southcack77]

So just out of curiosity, while those five states you named were mishandling it in March, what were the other 45 states doing properly to mitigate it? Did South Dakota and Montana cut off flights from China and Italy? That doesn't explain the situation at all.

What everyone else did right was not having an existing epidemic when private businesses and individuals began the shut down.

The formal re-opening by governments and yes the Protests acted as permission slips for the irresponsible to just do whatever they want.

[Garmel]

New York has a slightly lower than average nursing home death rate.

https://freopp.org/the-covid-19-nurs...s-3a47433c3f70

NY has been playing with the numbers. https://fee.org/articles/new-york-ad...s-report-says/

[Garmel]

I'm guilty too but perhaps we need to get back to baseball than making this a politics thread.

[Slippyjms]

I'm guilty too but perhaps we need to get back to baseball than making this a politics thread.

Unfortunately it’s a one in the same type situation. COVID has had a direct impact on the season and is continuing to do so. You can’t just ignore it away because it causes uncomfortable conversations.

[goldfly]

Media and the left is the answer to the question you're implying.

lol

yes

that's it

the bastion of no media or leftist politics in Europe is why they are doing better overall

lol

[goldfly]

Looking at that tweet he seems less concerned about covid and more about playing in empty stadiums.

i think he doesn't like the prospect of playing in empty stadiums but covid is why he isn't playing

he said in the press conference that after talking to Freeman that he changed his mind.

i unfortunately got this virus and everything that has come out from Freeman sounds like it affected us similarly. it absolutely kicked my ass and was so weak.i'm still having some breathing issues 4 months later

[clvclv]

Deaths per million.

Italy, as well as many others, performed much more poorly than the US.

Never have understood why this kind of number gets tossed around - There aren't a million people that live within a 75 mile radius of me.

So areas like mine help to bring those numbers WAY down, but they also count just as much when you want to say there's no shortage of ICU beds or PPE in New York, Houston, etc.? Seems to me that if you were actually interested in measuring things correctly you'd only compare the ones in densely-populated areas to those in other densely-populated areas.

"Media-hype" works both ways - if you're trying to scare everybody in the Styx by referencing the numbers in big cities, make sure you inform the folks in populated areas that their numbers are being kept down since you're including places like this in your calculations.

[Super]

It's weird how European soccer leagues are seemingly doing OK, while every actual sport trying to restart here is going to be a disaster.

yup, some countries took care of ****.
sadly we did not. and still refuse to.

[clvclv]

So just out of curiosity, while those five states you named were mishandling it in March, what were the other 45 states doing properly to mitigate it? Did South Dakota and Montana cut off flights from China and Italy? That doesn't explain the situation at all.

I can answer that one for you - absolutely nothing. Not here at least.

[clvclv]

But, keep Pache down all year, and then bring him up after the Super2 cutoff in 2021 and we gain another year of control. There’s no reason to burn his clock this year unless basically all of our OFs opt out or get hurt. I’d rather see Culberson and Ortega out there than wasting a year of Pache.

It's a situational/contractual issue honestly.

We're going to "need" Pache and Waters to be ready next season unless you plan to go out this winter and sign another Ozuna, and how many of those guys do we expect are going to accept pillow deals? No more Markakis as an option. No more Duvall.

You can't keep kicking the can down the road with kids STRICTLY based on delaying service-time - either they're going to be good enough to cut it at this level or they're not. Every year you continue to put off finding out is a year they become a step slower and get a year older. Sooner or later you have to find out what you've got, and you're not going to do that by continuing to run them out there against inferior competition to try to prove things to you. The holes in their games are going to continue to be holes in their games. I'll take a high strikeout rate from Waters for the money he'll cost if he's hitting 25 bombs and playing CF defense in LF.

At some point in time present value has to outweigh future value - assuming winning a championship is your goal - the longer you wait with Pache and Waters, the less time you control Soroka/Fried/Acuna/Albies to play with them. It's great to have a chance every year, but finishing second or third all the time eventually gets old - trust me, we Carolina basketball fans know that all too well.

[thewupk]

Not sure why people are worried about losing years of service time for Pache. If he's good we will sign him to a cheap long term deal.