Umm...Hector Olivera?Originally Posted by 50PoundHead
Umm...Hector Olivera?
Snowman (08-14-2020)
Perhaps the worst Braves trade of all time. At least the worst of this century. It didn't even make sense on paper. I remember the news breaking and I kept waiting to see who else was being sent to Atlanta. I couldn't believe the return we got was it.
I meant with the initial rebuild.
I remember trading BJ to cut payroll (with less prospects), and then turning around and signing Nick. It was mind boggling.
Coppy did his best work (besides the Dansby trade), with his mid level trades.
I get that the Markakis signing really didn't fit the blueprint of what a rebuilding team should do, but it is important to note that he's still playing and Melvin Upton, Jr., has been out of baseball since March, 2018.
The Olivera trade happened before the Simmons trade.
50PoundHead (08-16-2020)
I don’t see any sort of typecasting as “old school” pitchers. I see:
1. WAY too much reliance on breaking stuff.
2 Bad fastball command.
3. Poor composure.
Basically anti-old school.
The simmons trade was built around the coming up of Albies. The idea that Albies would be ready in a year or so, so Simmons was expendable, and I'm not against Simmons's trade, but the fact the only quality prospect we got was Newcomb is baffling.
Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg
They could have just moved Albies over to 2B. Oh wait.....
I thought it was because they just acquired Swanson.
Coppy was an unmitigated disaster. We are only in the position we are in now because acuna and Albies were signed under the previous regime
True, that's why including Aybar as a bridge to Albies was short-sighted. The Olivera deal was also mentioned and I think along with the acquisition of Aybar in the Simmons deal clearly pointed to a dedication to a middle path instead of a full rebuild. I don't go Horsehide Harry on the whole deal, but those two moves didn't make a whole lot of sense. Instead of Aybar and Ellis, the Braves should have demanded Newcomb and another Angels' top prospect instead.
Sad part, is that there were MANY teams that would have been in on Simmons. I just don’t see how Newk was the best deal available, and if he was...hard pass. There was ZERO pressure to trade him when he was on a long term team friendly deal. Newk would have needed to become a All Star to even make this deal break even.
Trading Simmons to rebuild and have guys on the same time line...ok...I see that I guess. If you trade Simmons ...you better get a haul that can help you in 3-4 years. Also, if you trade Simmons...you also trade Julio and Freddie...or at least make them available each year until the right deal came (and it would have). Just think what Simmons would have commanded at the trade deadline.
We had an absolute TON of assets and Coppy botched most of them. Shelby Miller was perfect. Trade a guy that wasn’t in line with the rebuild at his peak value to the highest bidder.
If they would have gone “all in” like the Astro’s did. Maximize every asset and also have a #1 or #2 pick each year...it could have been a amazing rebuild. Let BJ play and try to rebuild his value (which he did) and don’t sign Nick (which negated more than half of the BJ move anyway).
Our main assets...didn’t have to be traded all at once. They were all on long term, team friendly deals. Set your price and wait for a desperate team. It always happens with patience and if it doesn’t..you stand pat. The Yankees do this crap like clockwork.
Last edited by TheBravos; 08-15-2020 at 11:24 AM.
The Yanks got Gleber Torres for 2 months of Chapman.
We got Matt Wisler for 4 years of Kimbrel
Coppy had to get an arm in every trade to appease the dinosaurs he just impressed with his ability to operate a computer.
Getting a lottery ticket arm is fine. I know many hated the Gohora trade, but I thought it was a good gamble. I failed, but if he would have stayed healthy...no doubt he had TOR potential.
Coppy made so many trades, so quickly. There was just no need.
It is mind boggling that there were three guys he needed to trade in the offseason because they only had one year of control left....Justin Upton , Jason Hayward and the Shelby Miller. Somehow...those ended up his best trades. Jason Hayward/Shelby Miller turned into Dansby, Ender and Blair who failed (but was a pretty high prospect). Justin Upton turned into Max, Mallex and Jase and Dustin....for ONE year of Upton. Those were both great.
Coppy then turned around and absolutely stunk it up with the guys that had years more of cheap control. If he waits to the trade deadline to deal Kimbrel ....good Lord what we might have gotten. The Yanks wanted Simba. Wood could have also cleaned up at the deadline.
If I am correct...we have Riley and Newk left from Kimbrel (best closet in baseball under cheap control for four years), Simba (best defensive SS in MLB under control cheap for years), and Wood + (young pitcher under control and others).
Then he refused to trade peak Julio.
That is more than bad. He should have been banned from baseball just for those trades. That’s three Texeira size bad trades from the reverse side which makes it soooo much worse because we had what THEY wanted. At least in the Texeira trade...WE were the ones trying to make the trade.
Padres ended up getting nothing out of their Kimbrel package if it's any consolation.
It’s not.
It almost makes you wonder if there was a mandate from ownership to cut payroll immediately since they weren't contending. I doubt it to the extent we saw, but who knows.
I thought Simmons went right away along with Heyward and Upton. Thanks for the correction. Another guy who seemed to learn how to hit after he left Atlanta.
As for getting a pitcher back in most deals, I think Tampa Bay has often done that. Whenever they move a decent pitcher for budget reasons, they seem to get a young arm in return. The difference is they appear to do a better job at developing the pitcher they receive in the deal.
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