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Thread: Bryse Wilson's stuff

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    Bryse Wilson's stuff

    Last night, the eye test on TV revealed:

    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    So looks like a 4 seamer at 93-95, change at 87, hard slider at 89, and a frisbee thing at 80.
    Now that we have 2020 data on ~50 pitches, here is what we actually saw:

    FA: 93.9 mph (Grade 50/55), -3.7" xMov (Grade 40), 7.0" zMov (Grade 30)

    This is not a good pitch...flat and straight with average velocity. He has lost velocity since his 2018 debut when he was throwing it 95.3 mph. This FA should not be the foundation of a pitcher's arsenal if he hopes to be a MLB contributor.

    SL: 88.1 mph (65), 1.4" xMov (45), 3.3" zMov (40)

    This is a slider/cutter hybrid that should be decently effective.

    CH: 6.4 mph delta (40), -6.2" xMov (40), 1.9" zMov (60/65)

    The change is a pretty good downer, and can be used to keep hitters honest.

    SI: 92.9 mph (50+), -8.6" xMov (50), 3.5" zMov (60)

    This is a good pitch, and by far his best fastball. He should be relying on this, not the FA. It will pair especially well with that hard slider.

    CU: 79.5 mph (55), 9.8" xMov (80), 0.3" zMov (25)

    This is the frisbee I was referring to last night. It has tremendous sweeping action away from RHH, and is shaped like the curve typically seen from side-arming RHP. This pitch could make Wilson VERY effective against RHH.

    Overall:

    I realize folks love the narrative of Wilson being a "bulldog" and going right after hitters, but he simply doesn't have the stuff to do it. That straight and flat FA is going to be destroyed by MLB hitters. He needs to be a sinker/slider guy, not a guy who "comes right at the hitter", because he will be annihilated.

    If Wilson increases the usage of his SI, and mixes it in with that hard SL and frisbee CU, he can be very effective vs RHH out of the BP. If he progresses with that CH, or learns how to bury the SL down and in to LHH, there is no reason he can't be a guy who faces 9-18 batters a game. This could be especially true if he follows a LHP who the opposing team stacked RHH in the lineup to counter.

    But that FA has to go, or he won't succeed, and someone needs to tell him that now...not in the off season...now. He's already losing velocity, as is typically the case with pitchers in their early 20s. He needs to realize he is not a bulldog with dominating stuff, he is a pitcher with mediocre stuff.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 08-12-2020 at 01:50 PM.

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    Yeah, I remember last year his velo had dropped and he was getting killed. Seems like when he first came up he was hitting 96 and going after people. I had hoped (like most people), if he developed secondary pitches with that velo...he could be special. Last year after I saw him topping out at 92-93...I figured he would be going to the bullpen. His secondary stuff “has” gotten better though. 92-93 is still plenty fast if he doesn’t use it much (just to keep them honest). I would say that’s why he’s had such a big adjustment. His mentality doesn’t match his stuff now ala Lucas Sims (although he is still way better than him).

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    Can you do an update for Fried with his sinker?

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    There was some mention of the FB 4 vs 2 Seamer back in the minors. He was always a 4 seam guy, and they were trying to get him to move toward being 2 seamer dominate mix.

    Not sure how much they got it to "take" so to speak.
    Ivermectin Man

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    I think as teams are getting more and more creative with their use of pitching staffs, the value of pitching versatility will increase. If Wilson could be a guy you could either use as an opener or pair with an opener, use as a long reliever, and still be a guy with good enough stuff to face a couple tough righties in high leverage situations, he'd have some pretty good value.

    Are we entering the era of the super utility pitcher?

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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    I think as teams are getting more and more creative with their use of pitching staffs, the value of pitching versatility will increase. If Wilson could be a guy you could either use as an opener or pair with an opener, use as a long reliever, and still be a guy with good enough stuff to face a couple tough righties in high leverage situations, he'd have some pretty good value.

    Are we entering the era of the super utility pitcher?
    It's just a reliever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    It's just a reliever.
    And a super utility guy is just a backup.

    Versatility has never been more valuable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    It's just a reliever.
    Normally I would agree, but I really liked Moylan's segment on Tomlin last night. He should be penciled in as one of our Openers IMO, with Matzek as the other. Neither of them appear fazed by which inning they're pitching. Newk, Wilson, and Ynoa all have that deer in the headlights look when starting, but don't struggle nearly that much later on - if Snitker could get the order right and have those guys follow Tomlin and Matzek instead of the other way around, I think we'll be fine. Just have to stop getting in 6-0 holes right out of the gate.
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    I think folks are confusing openers with what the Braves have been doing.

    Openers are just BP arms that pitch the first inning, and they are determined by the opponents lineup. For example, if the opponent bats 2 RHH in the first 3 spots of the lineup, and RHP BP arm opens the game. He is then relieved by the “bulk” pitcher who goes 3-5 innings. The benefit to this is the bulk guys misses the top of the lineup a 3rd time, but still faces the lesser hitters at the back half of the lineup 2 or 3 times. Opponents typically stack their lineup to play platoon advantages agains the bulk guy going several innings, not against the opener who only faces 3-4 batters.

    The Braves have been piggybacking 2 guys who would normally be considered back end rotation arms or long men out of the BP. The idea here is they name a starter who will face 9-20 batters, thus forcing the opponent to stack the lineup with platoon advantages. The piggyback partner is ideally opposite handed, and can either take advantage of the heavily platooned opposing lineup, or force the other team to make many substitutions in the middle innings. This strategy requires a manager capable of knowing when to flip that switch and make the opponent respond, which I’m not convinced Snit can do.

    A team like the Yankees is going to stack the lineup with RHH thunder no matter what, so a piggyback isn’t quite as effective. Against a team like that, an opener might be the best tactic so the bulk guy only faces DJL and Judge 1-2 times while still facing 15-20 batters.

    A team like the Dodgers is going to stack the lineup in response to the bulk pitcher handedness. A piggyback would seem to be a better strategy against a team like that, since it will force them to make many changes in the middle innings or suffer the platoon disadvantage for many PAs.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 08-13-2020 at 02:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I think folks are confusing openers with what the Braves have been doing.

    Openers are just BP arms that pitch the first inning, and they are determined by the opponents lineup. For example, if the opponent bats 2 RHH in the first 3 spots of the lineup, and RHP BP arm opens the game. He is then relieved by the “bulk” pitcher who goes 3-5 innings. The benefit to this is the bulk guys misses the top of the lineup a 3rd time, but still faces the lesser hitters at the back half of the lineup 2 or 3 times. Opponents typically stack their lineup to play platoon advantages agains the bulk guy going several innings, not against the opener who only faces 3-4 batters.

    The Braves have been piggybacking 2 guys who would normally be considered back end rotation arms or long men out of the BP. The idea here is they name a starter who will face 9-20 batters, thus forcing the opponent to stack the lineup with platoon advantages. The piggyback partner is ideally opposite handed, and can either take advantage of the heavily platooned opposing lineup, or force the other team to make many substitutions in the middle innings. This strategy requires a manager capable of knowing when to flip that switch and make the opponent respond, which I’m not convinced Snit can do.

    A team like the Yankees is going to stack the lineup with RHH thunder no matter what, so a piggyback isn’t quite as effective. Against a team like that, an opener might be the best tactic so the bulk guy only faces DJL and Judge 1-2 times while still facing 15-20 batters.

    A team like the Dodgers is going to stack the lineup in response to the bulk pitcher handedness. A piggyback would seem to be a better strategy against a team like that, since it will force them to make many changes in the middle innings or suffer the platoon disadvantage for many PAs.
    Much better explanation. I do get the feeling from Wilson and Ynoa that they're more rattled facing the best hitters right out of the gate - if they came in and were allowed to "settle down" a bit by pitching to the bottom part of the lineup to begin with they'd be much more comfortable.

    I wasn't really suggesting that you need to get 3 or more innings from Tomlin and/or Matzek - only that you let them face off against the opposing team's best hitters since they don't struggle with butterflies nearly as much. If they "started" and gave you two perfect innings, the kids would get to face the bottom of the lineup before the most serious threats.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

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