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Thread: Ronald Acuña, Sr. Goes Off On Snitker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deester11 View Post
    I'm usually with ya 50, and Acuña can be frighteningly....young, but this team is boring and azz without him. I have NO issue calling him out for his play but it's way overblown considering the dumb ish Swanson, Riley, Contreras, et.al, do almost nightly. I don't think Acuña is getting a pass at all. He has been ripped pretty consistently by purists, casuals and know it alls. I get it.

    I don't get Twits constant bs handling of him. If that were my dad "protecting me," I'd just brag to the other kid about how my mom could beat up his mom. I'm still pissed about it. I was at the Cardinal game and section 112 was still talking about it!

    No player is bigger than the team. But this entire incident has pushed me to the edge with Twit (as if his game management hasn't done that enough).
    To be clear, I'm not defending Snitker and yes, this is probably one of the most whitebread teams in baseball. And I agree with you that Acuna is not alone in the boneheaded play department. Some of that is inexperience in the way of Contreras behind the plate and some of it appears to be a kind of intellectual laziness among the players. The entire team has not appeared to be laced in from the get-go in 2021. Probably contributes to Acuna's not wanting to rely on anyone else to move things along.

    I'm not much for crediting managers when things go right or blaming them when things go wrong, but I think where Snitker is really falling down this year is he seems to be buying too heavily into the sad sack bad luck tune (and we have been unlucky). It's easy to manage when things are falling right (like they did in 2020) when every button--even the wrong ones--seems to produce a benefit when pushed. It's more difficult when you're playing short-handed, the 2020 MVP looks mortal, and the pitching staff underperforms. That's when managing gets difficult and Snitker needs to up his game and I think it's a legitimate question to ask if he's truly up to it. Bobby Cox wasn't perfect, but he didn't worry about outside expectations. I think the pre-season expectations are what are haunting Snitker and he's showing himself to be wanting in how to manage in tough times.
    Last edited by 50PoundHead; 06-19-2021 at 02:14 PM.

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    Totally agree 50. I haven't broken out the pitchforks much but I've sharpened them for a couple of years....great post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapate50 View Post
    For some reason 4 pages on this seems ...like a lot.

    It’s probably already settled out in the ch.
    Once it hits 5 we will forget about it. Or will we forget about Acuna. I don’t know but five pages make you forget something. That I know
    Coppy

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    The big thing to me is that Acuña's baserunning error was the result of over-exuberance and over-aggression in trying to make a baseball play happen, get into a better position to score, et cetera. Sure, he didn't play the odds well in that situation, since he wasn't the tying or winning run, but he was trying to make a play and help the team.

    Snitker's human resources error has, meanwhile, absolutely no justification whatsoever. It isn't good pedagogy, it doesn't set a good example, it doesn't help team cohesion—and, frankly, it just reads like a dumb old dinosaur publicly lashing out at the best, most dynamic, most exciting player on his team. Considering Snitker doesn't bring much tactically to the team, his are the sort of unforced errors the team can't really afford, especially on matters like this, which lie squarely in his supposed wheelhouse. (I probably don't even need mention that the team obviously can weather a few unforced errors on the basepaths by a guy perennially in the top 5-10 best players in the game category.)
    Last edited by jpx7; 06-19-2021 at 03:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopdrew View Post
    I'm not sure I agree, but I at least accept that rationale. I don't think I can ever fault a kid for trying to make something happen in the heat of the moment when he's one of the fastest baserunners in the league. The HR pimping thing didn't bother me as much as it did most people I guess. I don't think you can assume we would've scored and I was at that game and I thought it was gone, too. I also had more of a problem with Freeman criticizing him publicly when he was hitting about a buck fifteen in the postseason for his career up to that point. Plank in his own eye and all that...
    What was he trying to make happen though? Make it easier to get the 9th run when Boston had 10? In that situation it served zero purpose to be on 3rd. None. That's what made it really bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    What was he trying to make happen though? Make it easier to get the 9th run when Boston had 10? In that situation it served zero purpose to be on 3rd. None. That's what made it really bad.
    The problem here is you can't have it both ways - especially with young players.

    Snitker constantly preaches to the media (and I assume the players) that they want to be aggressive - taking the extra base, going 1st to 3rd, and putting pressure on the defense WHENEVER POSSIBLE. It's a little ridiculous to expect them to suddenly think game situation on their own in close games.

    If you don't want them to run, put up the stop sign - if they go anyway, THEN you can call them out.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    The problem here is you can't have it both ways - especially with young players.

    Snitker constantly preaches to the media (and I assume the players) that they want to be aggressive - taking the extra base, going 1st to 3rd, and putting pressure on the defense WHENEVER POSSIBLE. It's a little ridiculous to expect them to suddenly think game situation on their own in close games.

    If you don't want them to run, put up the stop sign - if they go anyway, THEN you can call them out.
    You're jumping waaaaaaay over the point. Being aggressive is one thing, but there are still some cardinal rules that need to be followed especially within the context of the game and these cardinal rules are usually drilled into every player from the time they put on their spikes and become second nature. There are going to be occasions where a player says "Damn the rules! Full speed ahead!" Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't, but the player is making a conscious decision to deviate from the standard in those instances.

    Snitker is responsible for his reaction and subsequent tossing of Acuna under the bus, but Snitker isn't responsible for Acuna's decision to attempt to ill-advisedly go to third. That's all on Acuna and he has admitted as such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    You're jumping waaaaaaay over the point. Being aggressive is one thing, but there are still some cardinal rules that need to be followed especially within the context of the game and these cardinal rules are usually drilled into every player from the time they put on their spikes and become second nature. There are going to be occasions where a player says "Damn the rules! Full speed ahead!" Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't, but the player is making a conscious decision to deviate from the standard in those instances.

    Snitker is responsible for his reaction and subsequent tossing of Acuna under the bus, but Snitker isn't responsible for Acuna's decision to attempt to ill-advisedly go to third. That's all on Acuna and he has admitted as such.
    Absolutely - and that's the entire point.

    If Snitker isn't sure he can rely on Acuna's (or any other player's for that matter) judgement in that situation, it's HIS JOB to put the stop sign up. That's what Managers are for.

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with Snitker calling it a bad decision. If he was going to do it outside of the clubhouse, the next words out of his mouth should have been "I should've told him not to run in that situation".
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    The problem here is you can't have it both ways - especially with young players.

    Snitker constantly preaches to the media (and I assume the players) that they want to be aggressive - taking the extra base, going 1st to 3rd, and putting pressure on the defense WHENEVER POSSIBLE. It's a little ridiculous to expect them to suddenly think game situation on their own in close games.

    If you don't want them to run, put up the stop sign - if they go anyway, THEN you can call them out.
    Don't agree with that at all. It's possible to be aggressive and know game situations. And Acuna isn't a young player. He's been playing baseball his entire life. What he did isn't something they suddenly start teaching you once you reach the majors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Don't agree with that at all. It's possible to be aggressive and know game situations. And Acuna isn't a young player. He's been playing baseball his entire life. What he did isn't something they suddenly start teaching you once you reach the majors.
    You can't be serious. There are guys who play ball forever and they still make mistakes. He acknowledged it. The bytch move was by Snit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deester11 View Post
    You can't be serious. There are guys who play ball forever and they still make mistakes. He acknowledged it. The bytch move was by Snit.
    Thus proves my point. What Acuna did isn't something that happened because he's 'young'. And he knows he messed up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Thus proves my point. What Acuna did isn't something that happened because he's 'young'. And he knows he messed up.
    And he wouldn't have "messed up" regardless of whether you want to consider him a young pup or grizzled veteran if the Manager had done his job and put the stop sign on.

    There are very few things a Manager actually controls in an MLB game - making sure the players are aware of what they're expected to do (or not do) in a given situation is one of them. That's what Managers and coaches do - make sure everyone knows how many outs there are, how many timeouts you have, which base to throw to, etc..

    I'm not trying to throw Snitker under the bus here - just pointing out the inconsistency. Snit is ALWAYS standing in front of the press and falling on his sword all the other times - whether he's at fault or not, he tries to take the heat off the players. He didn't in this situation, and it was out of character for him. How many times have we heard him make excuses for the pen instead of saying "these guys just aren't getting it done"?
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    And he wouldn't have "messed up" regardless of whether you want to consider him a young pup or grizzled veteran if the Manager had done his job and put the stop sign on.

    There are very few things a Manager actually controls in an MLB game - making sure the players are aware of what they're expected to do (or not do) in a given situation is one of them. That's what Managers and coaches do - make sure everyone knows how many outs there are, how many timeouts you have, which base to throw to, etc..

    I'm not trying to throw Snitker under the bus here - just pointing out the inconsistency. Snit is ALWAYS standing in front of the press and falling on his sword all the other times - whether he's at fault or not, he tries to take the heat off the players. He didn't in this situation, and it was out of character for him. How many times have we heard him make excuses for the pen instead of saying "these guys just aren't getting it done"?
    A manager shouldn't have to tell a player not to get thrown out at 3rd by 10 feet in that situation.

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    The problem is you can’t say “good job” when a player makes a dumb decision that works out, and then trash him in the media when a dumb move doesn’t work out. The dumb move is dumb regardless of the outcome, and those teachable moments need to be consistently used to teach young players when it’s acceptable to take such risks. It was dumb even if he was safe, and he needs to be told that rather than praised for “making something happen”.

    Regardless of the stupidity of Acuna’s play, a manager bashing the player publicly to the media is never ok, period. Folks trying to derail this argument into a discussion about whether the play was dumb or not are completely missing the point…which usually happens with folks unable to maintain logical lines of reason. It’s how dumb people are convinced of many things, actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    The problem is you can’t say “good job” when a player makes a dumb decision that works out, and then trash him in the media when a dumb move doesn’t work out. The dumb move is dumb regardless of the outcome, and those teachable moments need to be consistently used to teach young players when it’s acceptable to take such risks. It was dumb even if he was safe, and he needs to be told that rather than praised for “making something happen”.

    Regardless of the stupidity of Acuna’s play, a manager bashing the player publicly to the media is never ok, period. Folks trying to derail this argument into a discussion about whether the play was dumb or not are completely missing the point…which usually happens with folks unable to maintain logical lines of reason. It’s how dumb people are convinced of many things, actually.
    Good lord this is it. Smh. No one is saying Acuña didn't f up. Smh again. Very good post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    A manager shouldn't have to tell a player not to get thrown out at 3rd by 10 feet in that situation.
    Then there's not a *ell of a lot of reason to have a Manager - just send the players out there and let them play.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Regardless of the stupidity of Acuna’s play, a manager bashing the player publicly to the media is never ok, period. Folks trying to derail this argument into a discussion about whether the play was dumb or not are completely missing the point…which usually happens with folks unable to maintain logical lines of reason. It’s how dumb people are convinced of many things, actually.
    I mean the only reason to trash him in the media has to be a power play right? Like Acuna is far and away the most valuable player on this team. He should be bending over backwards to appease the kid. This must be him thinking if he can trash him in the media and keep his job, he has more power than Acuna. It has to be some kind of dumb play like that.

    A manager shouldn't bash a player in the media. This reminds me of the dumb **** Tingler trashed Tatis for swinging 3-0 with the bases loaded and being up a bunch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    I mean the only reason to trash him in the media has to be a power play right? Like Acuna is far and away the most valuable player on this team. He should be bending over backwards to appease the kid. This must be him thinking if he can trash him in the media and keep his job, he has more power than Acuna. It has to be some kind of dumb play like that.

    A manager shouldn't bash a player in the media. This reminds me of the dumb **** Tingler trashed Tatis for swinging 3-0 with the bases loaded and being up a bunch.
    It was weird. On the "worst" scale, I actually think that Tingler and LaRussa's comments were worse than Snitker's because they were griping about outdated unwritten rules of baseball etiquette while Snitker's were about a key in-game mistake. That said, Snitker should have kept his mouth shut. This doesn't rise to the level of Billy Martin and Reggie Jackson shouting at each other in the dugout and almost coming to blows in the Yankee dugout or Tyler Houston/Larry Bowa feud in Philadelphia, but managers have to keep things like this in-house.
    Last edited by 50PoundHead; 06-21-2021 at 10:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    Then there's not a *ell of a lot of reason to have a Manager - just send the players out there and let them play.
    What are you saying. A manger has never put up a stop sign. Ever. And going second to third is usually always on the players judgement. Sure he can glance at the third base coach but by then he knows if he is going or not
    Coppy

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    Thread derailment post warning.

    This is just another aspect of how the game is changing. It is just like how we all get frustrated that a guy can’t put a ball in play when a runner is on third and less than 2 outs. Well that player is not used to ‘just putting ball in play’. Analytics tell him that ‘just putting the ball in play’ is sub optimal. No different than a team going standard pitching throughout the regular season then trying to do some fashion of opener or bullpen cover games in the playoffs. When you aren’t used to doing something then it is harder to do.

    So when a manger preaches aggressive base running and like chef said when he doesn’t correct bad plays due to results then you can’t expect that player to do it right when the situation calls for it. I think we need to get used to players making dumb decisions because the reward for when it works out is greater than the heat he gets when it doesn’t.
    Coppy

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