No one has hit the panic button. We are just tired of the same crap every day from this team led by one of the worst managers in baseball.
Is it time to blow this up?
- Thread starter BravesfanMike
- Start date
No one has hit the panic button. We are just tired of the same crap every day from this team led by one of the worst managers in baseball.
PurpleBrave
On BBA's Top 100 Prospects List
Saving grace is that we're in the worst division in baseball. Whoever can stay over .500 may win it
PurpleBrave
On BBA's Top 100 Prospects List
Even tho we lost today at least we tried Stella at lead off. Next we should try not batting a black hole at the 2 spot with Lastella leading off
This is true.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
So what does hitting the panic button look like then? And Milwood has been smashing his face into the panic button. That's all he does.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
It's the curse of Dan Uggla 20-12 with him as the starting 2b now 6 under with him riding the pine. A case of be careful what you ask for, you might get it.
NinersSBChamps
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br> 2015 (Co-Winner)</BR>20
NinersSBChamps
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br> 2015 (Co-Winner)</BR>20
Do we need to blow it up? Absolutely not. The team is at least back in playoff contention the last couple of seasons. The team will remain the the discussion for a playoff spot again this season. Partly because of the mediocre division they are in. Definitely some players need to be shipped off far away from this organization, but let's he honest no team is taking on BJ Upton or Dan Uggla. Anything of value we could get back in return for a trade involving Harang we need execute quickly. Today notwithstanding although that start will be on GM's radar.
I don't see the Wren and company making a big splash at all. The market may not be as lucrative as it could be. Lot's of teams aren't going to be sellers as of now. A month from now hopefully things are a little more clear though.
I don't see the Wren and company making a big splash at all. The market may not be as lucrative as it could be. Lot's of teams aren't going to be sellers as of now. A month from now hopefully things are a little more clear though.
Runnin
Well-known member
This is still a really young team and we actually NEED to lose like this to grow and get better. Last year things were a little too easy, imo. Our pitching made up for a lot of offensive flaws, but this year we're struggling in all facets, making us face up to some hard realities. They're getting an education, I promise you.
You'd think as bad as our hitters often look against good and even mediocre pitching that they'd learn to shorten their swings and try to make better contact. Sometimes you just have to have it beaten into you.
You'd think as bad as our hitters often look against good and even mediocre pitching that they'd learn to shorten their swings and try to make better contact. Sometimes you just have to have it beaten into you.
CyYoung31
Shift Leader
Wow. An actual reasonable post from you.
NinersSBChamps
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br> 2015 (Co-Winner)</BR>20
Yeah I felt strange typing it.
BravesfanMike
High School Draftee
"To your credit I don't recall you having a history of negative posting."
I have been a braves fan longer than most of you have been alive and have supported the team through thick and thin; you have read very few negative posts from me
The intent of this post was to look down the road another 2 years. Will we still be in this boat ? I think we will. We have a great young core which may benefit with the addition of younger hungrier players. I don't advocate blowing this up for blowing up sake...hell I remember the 60's 70's and 80's and still supported the team
I have been a braves fan longer than most of you have been alive and have supported the team through thick and thin; you have read very few negative posts from me
The intent of this post was to look down the road another 2 years. Will we still be in this boat ? I think we will. We have a great young core which may benefit with the addition of younger hungrier players. I don't advocate blowing this up for blowing up sake...hell I remember the 60's 70's and 80's and still supported the team
Not sure if you've been paying attention or not the last 3 years, but I'm pretty sure this team has been built or is being built around those guys.
Gattis only has a shelf life realistically of a few years before the inevitable catcher's decline. The one thing you can be optimistic for maybe is he doesn't have that much mileage yet on his legs because he was out of baseball for a few years but that is somewhat negated when you remember he has had some surgeries on them.
Freeman is here to stay, as is Simmons. CJ needs to be dealt with fast, I don't mind throwing in a younger guy and going through growing pains because CJ is just a headache. La Stella is a wild card. If he continues to be solid and produce there's no reason to get rid of him, we have younger guys coming up that could potentially replace him but for now he's probably our best option at 2B.
Heyward we won't know what he's going to do after this season. BJ is stuck here. Justin we could theoretically trade for gold but it might just tick off BJ and his effort might drop more than it already is now.
Pitching is always questionable. Julio deal looks solid, even though I was skeptical about it initially. We're probably going to let Minor walk depending on Wood's development the next 2 years.
Freeman is here to stay, as is Simmons. CJ needs to be dealt with fast, I don't mind throwing in a younger guy and going through growing pains because CJ is just a headache. La Stella is a wild card. If he continues to be solid and produce there's no reason to get rid of him, we have younger guys coming up that could potentially replace him but for now he's probably our best option at 2B.
Heyward we won't know what he's going to do after this season. BJ is stuck here. Justin we could theoretically trade for gold but it might just tick off BJ and his effort might drop more than it already is now.
Pitching is always questionable. Julio deal looks solid, even though I was skeptical about it initially. We're probably going to let Minor walk depending on Wood's development the next 2 years.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
There is a kernel of truth to that, the problem with that logic is it doesn't jibe with Wren's decisions to extend Uggla and overspend on Upton the Elder. The team is spending $29.5 million on non-core players. That's ridiculous.
Millwood1Hitter
Anytime Now Frankie...
I can't deal with the BJ Upton contract any more, I thought it was a bad deal at the time and it looks even worse now. The Uggla deal I can fanthom, somewhat, as I didn't expect him to fall off a cliff like he did, I thought he'd be overpaid the last 2 years of the deal but would still be a relatively productive player, but we only have 1 more year to deal with his financial constraits. BJ on the other hand 
Uggla was extended when we traded for him IIRC.
When we did trade for him he was still Top 5 offensive 2B in the majors easily.
Upton the Elder, I think was a move that launched the offensive to acquire Justin. Without BJ signing, don't know if we get Justin as weird as that sounds since it wasn't contingent on either. I think for whatever reason, the Braves and Wren had this vision of seeing Justin and BJ play together, and hoped that it would push them to play better than either did.
I don't think anyone expected the drastic fall off the cliff decline from Uggla or BJ, BJ especially this early int he contract. I was expecting huge regression from BJ by year 3, did not expect years 1 and 2 to be what he would've been on pace to be producing at Age 35. Uggla flew off the cliff overnight. The first two months of last season he was still somewhat valuable hitting homers and walking. Then summer came and he was absolutely horrible. If he was still hitting homers and walking he'd still be in the lineup but he wasn't so now we have TLS.
I don't blame Wren for making the deals at the time because they did fill needs. I'm just astounded that both players' production diminished so quickly and it seems like this happens to Braves' acquisitions more often than other teams.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I won't give Wren and company a total walk on Uggla because, as you say, it was plausible that he would remain somewhat productive. My issue is you don't give a guy with as obviously limited athletic skills as Uggla a long-term deal after age 30. Maybe if you're in the AL where he could DH, but the guy is a one-position player (and terrible at the one position he can play) who has a slider-speed bat. Only thing that really buffered that is that he could draw walks and hit mistakes. Now he can't hit mistakes, so he doesn't draw walks because the pitchers don't have to nibble on him.
I would have been fine with Upton at 4 years at $12 million (or pretty much what Bourn got from the Indians), but Wren bid against himself. In fairness, we did need a CF.
But, to me, the bottom line is that the core group is Freeman, Heyward, and Upton the Younger (again, in fairness he was acquired after Wren handed out the candy to his older brother and Uggla). Add to that a good fielding shortstop who is signed to a reasonable contract and you fill in the slots around that. Gattis has been a surprise (although I worry about his longterm durability). Chris Johnson was a pleasant surprise last year and a horrible disappointment this year and I think the extension was a mistake because, again, he's not that important to the core of the team. I think you could get by with a cheap platoon at 3B with guys who would complement the core more appropriately. I like La Stella as well.
But the simple fact is we are paying too much for guys who do too little.
PS--Yes, you're right. I can't remember if the extension was simultaneous with the trade, but Wren's logic was "I'm not going to give up two guys for a rental." My point is that if you're dealing with a tight budget from the top (which we supposedly were when Uggla was acquired), the logic should have been a 180 from what Wren thought. You have a core of guys coming up from the minors and you acquire a guy like Uggla for a year as a bridge to that core. I don't think Billy Beane walks on water, but those are the kind of moves he's made that have met with some success in Oakland. You roll the dice on a guy for a year and let him walk (or move him if and when you out of contention).
I would have been fine with Upton at 4 years at $12 million (or pretty much what Bourn got from the Indians), but Wren bid against himself. In fairness, we did need a CF.
But, to me, the bottom line is that the core group is Freeman, Heyward, and Upton the Younger (again, in fairness he was acquired after Wren handed out the candy to his older brother and Uggla). Add to that a good fielding shortstop who is signed to a reasonable contract and you fill in the slots around that. Gattis has been a surprise (although I worry about his longterm durability). Chris Johnson was a pleasant surprise last year and a horrible disappointment this year and I think the extension was a mistake because, again, he's not that important to the core of the team. I think you could get by with a cheap platoon at 3B with guys who would complement the core more appropriately. I like La Stella as well.
But the simple fact is we are paying too much for guys who do too little.
PS--Yes, you're right. I can't remember if the extension was simultaneous with the trade, but Wren's logic was "I'm not going to give up two guys for a rental." My point is that if you're dealing with a tight budget from the top (which we supposedly were when Uggla was acquired), the logic should have been a 180 from what Wren thought. You have a core of guys coming up from the minors and you acquire a guy like Uggla for a year as a bridge to that core. I don't think Billy Beane walks on water, but those are the kind of moves he's made that have met with some success in Oakland. You roll the dice on a guy for a year and let him walk (or move him if and when you out of contention).
57Brave
Well-known member
REading various MLB message boards tells me just about every team is in that boat Look at the Tigers-Pirates-Yankees-both Sox - lord knows Phillies .... Dodgers --
etc etc etc etc etc
Teams that aren't? Royals maybe, A's probably -- Marlins -- Astros.
Couple years ago Red Sox went out for AGon and Carl Crawford -- and had Beckett (Dodgers now!)etc
Yankees are paying for CC and Ichiro
The roller coaster that is Puig
The roller coaster that is the Twin Nats - Stras and Harp
For the Braves to point to ONLY two is phenominal.
Question 50 --- suppose the bullpen hadn't imploded the past 6 weeks-
Would we be having this conversation? Or just the Hand Wringers