Noonan Gets It About Right

Douhat takes a terrible situation and explains it by putting words in the mouths of people that disagree with him on government regulation and taxation policies.
The " left"
Some erudite **** here

There are three reasons for this invisibility. The political left in the West associates Christian faith with dead white male imperialism and does not come naturally to the recognition that Christianity is now the globe’s most persecuted religion. And in the Middle East the Israel-Palestine question, with its colonial overtones, has been the left’s great obsession, whereas the less ideologically convenient plight of Christians under Islamic rule is often left untouched.
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This is just one paragraph but please some one help me here by footnoting - or like "you could look it up"
Bedell methinks this guy is taking you for a ride
 
Dang 57, you really, really do have a hard time actually reading things and staying focused don't you? Getting the overall message. No, you get your panties in such a wad if any commentator dares critique your worldview or your team. The articles by Noonan and I suppose you are referring to Douhat's article blasting Sen. Cruz (who by the way needs most certainly to be blasted) are excellent articles and that paragraph is spot on. And you also fail to mention that he critiques the Right's approach to Middle Eastern Christians as well - which is the main focus of that article vis a vie Cruz So, I'm not sure what in Hades you are carping about. Look it up? Taking me for a ride? Whatever.

Just love you some far lefty dribble which 100% lines up with your views. Fine by me.
 
a) You posted an Op-Ed that is behind a WSJ subscriber wall
b) You scolded me for not getting to the "meat and potatoes"

You then lectured me and shook your finger. In front of the whole class. Talk about getting personal

I did try to read Ms Noonans article just like I read David Brooks article and will probably read Douhat's gibberish tomorrow. Just like I read Think Progress and the Guardian.

I'm sad to report The Guardian nor Think Progress scolded Obama for getting away from his desk
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Why on earth would I want to expand my mind on "more conservative views" Isn't that what is called in the big city an oxymoron

So you read the article after all and missed the meat and potatoes and pulled your usual ad hominem argument. Figures.

Yeah, cause you know not every conservative has Cheney as a hero. Not every conservative is a neo-con. Hey, but lump us all together - after all we all look alike. SMH
 
1) Noonan article behind subscription wall

2) Douhat article boldly takes a swipe at Cruz (fish shot in barrel) but once again trots out persecuted Christians to rally the base for Koch funded candidates.


3) Ad hominen would apply if Noonan ever had history on her side. My turn. Let's trot out our geographically challenged friend in the Kiosk

4) It is terrible what is happening to the Christians in the Middle East. As well as the Muslim,Jew,Kurd,Armenian and the Buddhists in Afghanistan. We could go on
Out of all of this (i might have missed) what do you propose we do? There my friend is meat and potatoes. What policy (ies) do we enact?
Or, is this another cynical gimmick to rally the base for the mid terms. Would not be the first time "your side" has resorted to those "tactics"

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I read a report of a female service person in Anchorage Alaska that was drugged, raped and humiliated by the institutional process. Last week
We can't protect our own women serving in the military yet ... Christians in Muslim lands ??
 
1) So did you read or not?

2) It's true - sorry if you want to dispute the fact. And it is not a reference to this country but worldwide.

3) And that's just more ad hominem. And I'm not sure what the rest of your number 3 means...

4) Of course. Try reading my responses - I'm for assisting Yazidi, Kurds, Turkmen, Christians, etc. when faced with genocide. And I've already stated meat and potato foreign policy - emergency relief efforts, providing air and tactical support for both Kurds (and I'd even provide it for Assad's forces - but that's me). I applaud POTUS - and have already. I haven't been one to critique him over the past few months. Let the man play a round of golf. Probably a real good thing to do when a POTUS is confronting a barrage of complex issues. Clear his mind and all that.

Our women in the military aren't facing genocide.

I'm not one to encourage turning a blind eye - if we have the resources to help in the ways I mention above and if we approach the matter wisely, which I actually believe POTUS is doing.

And if you don't think Douthat and other Rs criticizing the self-serving stunt that Cruz did is a good thing, then I'm sorry. It certainly isn't base coddling.

So again I don't know what your issue is.

Btw, stop looking at this with only political glasses on.
 
1) No - I read the paragraph available

2) Christians have claimed persecution over everything from genocide to Happy Holidays ! It is on record as an effective political tool to get out the vote.
In this case yes they are being persecuted but, they are christians in hostel muslim lands.

3) "fool me once ..." I mean you can put any Latin term you wish to it but the lady just gets stuff wrong and I am not interested in wasting my time reading her or for that matter anyone else that consistantly is wrong. And, wonder why you insist . A wise man once advised me to open my mind to more conservative views.
Passing it on

4) I am sure you do and I am sure you do it in all and very good faith. but by meat and potatoes I see what policies are on the table. What credible pol has gotten behind this cause and what are they willing to risk to get it done. ?? Without that we might as well be advocating a single payer health care system no insurance companies involved cradle to grave. Lots of people willing to advocate and citizens to do what it is they can - but meat and potatoes ? how do we get the bulldog fed.
what purpose did Noonan serve by pointing out POTUS golfs ... she never really explains what golf has to do with this. Shoot she could have said he is spending too much time at his daughters soccer games or basketball. :)
..

5) I'm sure in your line of work you have come across a few rape victims. My experience has been many would have rather been a victim of genocide.
My point is ( and be very clear not to diminish yur concern) the wold is full of problems. Maybe a little more light on some we can possibly affect.
Now let my cynical side have a say. Women voted 67-33% (D) in the last election

6) I think we agree. POTUS wishes he could unlight that 2003 match

7) No one in major media has ever lost criticizing Cruz. Shooting fish in a barrel..

8) My issue is Peggy Noonan, whose history shows her an unwavering unreliable shill that should never be credited with analyzing anything beyond the chill of the beer.
Because she gets stuff wrong
 
1) Then stop carping on it and launching into ad hominem arguments based on 1 stupid paragraph.

2) Stop seeing everything politically - what Douthat and others are referring to is worldwide persecution (and no not of the "happy Holidays" variety). And as such he's right. As you say, "look it up."

3) I posted the article (which when I did wasn't behind the pay wall) because she gave a very good argument as to why there was support for efforts against ISIS now, unlike when ****e-loads of folks kept POTUS and McCain and his buddies from diving in earlier this year. That's all it was, dang it. You make posting here a major pain in the arse...

4) How in hades do you frickin know, you didn't read past the first paragraph... And POTUS is one credible politician that has gotten behind it. Ain't that obvious?

5) So what, let tens of thousands of folks, that we could help be wiped-out? When did you become a libertarian, non-interventionist?

6)

7) No left-leaning sure - but this is right-leaning folks and he needs to be hammered by left and right for that stunt. The R base and especially the dispensational Zionists write off the criticism of Cruz from the left. They need to hear it from others and that's absolutely fine by me. Why you've got a problem with it I think is more of a function of you hating folks like Douthat.

8) Dang, you are a broken record....
 
Because I subscribe.

President Obama would have been rocked the past few months by five things. One is the building criticism from left and right about his high need for relaxation—playing golf while the world burns. Another is that he misread the significance and public power of the beheadings of American journalists. Third, he has been way out of sync with American public opinion on Islamic State, which must be all the more galling because he thought he knew where Americans stood on the use of military force. Fourth, with his poll numbers declining (32% approval for his handling of foreign policy, according to The Wall Street Journal and NBC), it has probably occurred to him that he is damaging not only his own but his party's brand in foreign affairs. (Yes, George W. Bush did the same to his party, but Mr. Obama was supposed to reverse, not follow, that trend.) Fifth, he surely expects he is about to take a pounding from the antiwar left.

Most immediately interesting to me is the apparent change of mind by Americans toward military action in the Mideast. The president's long-reigning assumption is that a war-weary public has grown more isolationist. But, again according to the WSJ/NBC poll, more than 6 in 10 back moving militarily against Islamic State. Politicians and pundits believe that this is due to the gruesome, public and taunting murders of the U.S. journalists—that Americans saw the pictures and freaked out, that their backing of force is merely emotional.

I think they're missing a big aspect of this story.

A year ago the American people spontaneously rose up and told Washington they would not back a bombing foray in Syria that would help the insurgents opposed to Bashar Assad. That public backlash was a surprise not only to the White House but to Republicans in Congress, who were—and I saw them—ashen-faced after the calls flooded their offices. It was such a shock to Washington that officials there still don't talk about it and make believe it didn't happen.

Why was there such a wave of opposition? In part because Americans had no confidence their leaders understood the complications, history and realities of Syria or the Mideast. The previous 12 years had left them distrusting the American foreign-policy establishment. Americans felt the U.S. itself needed more care and attention. By 2013 there was a new depth of disbelief in Mr. Obama's leadership.

But there was another, powerful aspect to the opposition.

Evangelical Christians and conservative Catholics who would normally back strong military action were relatively silent in 2013. Why? I think because they were becoming broadly aware, for the first time, of what was happening to Christians in the Middle East. They were being murdered, tortured, abused for their faith and run out of the region. And for all his crimes and failings, Syria's justly maligned Assad was not attempting to crush his country's Christians. His enemies were—the jihadists, including those who became the Islamic State.

In the year since, the brutality against Middle Eastern Christians, and Islamic State's ferocious anti-Christian agenda, has left many Christians deeply alarmed. Jihadists are de-Christianizing the Mideast, where Christianity began.

An estimated two-thirds of the Christians of Iraq have fled that country since the 2003 U.S. invasion. They are being driven from their villages in northern Iraq. They are terrorized, brutalized, executed. This week an eyewitness in Mosul, which fell to Islamic State in June, told NBC News the jihadists were committing atrocities. In Syria, too, they have executed Christians for refusing to convert.

In roughly the past 18 months, all this has broken through in Christian communities, largely by way of Christian media, including Catholic news services and the Baptist press. The story has been all over social media. Pope Francis has denounced what is happening; the Vatican is talking about just-war theory.

Rep. Chris Smith, the New Jersey Republican who chairs the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Global Human Rights, this week called what is happening "a genocide."

"It is a global phenomenon, but dramatically in the Mideast," he said.

I told him I thought the journalists' beheadings had put a public picture on a crisis of which Christians in America have now become aware.

"An emphatic yes, with exclamation points put after it," he replied.

No one—at least not the United Nations or other international bodies, and not the administration—seems to be keeping official records. Mr. Smith suggested that when people don't really want you to know the scale of a problem, they don't gather the numbers. He has pressed both the U.S. government and the U.N. for statistics and specifics—how many Christians have been killed, abused, sent fleeing and from where. "It's all, 'I'll get back to you.' When they do, it's threadbare answers that don't say a whole lot."

The anguish and indignation of American Christians at what is being done, by Islamic State, to their brothers and sisters in faith is surely part of the reason Americans are backing U.S. action against the terror group.

It would surely also be a misreading of the polls to announce the American public is suddenly "interventionist." There is no reason to believe they have any appetite for romantic or aggressive forays into invasions, occupations or nation-building efforts. What they want to do—and they wanted to do it last month—is respond to a group that is unusually evil, even by Middle Eastern standards.

There is also no reason to infer from the polls that Americans hold to the illusion that moving on Islamic State would create new order and peace in the Mideast. Those illusions tend to live more in Washington than on-the-ground America. If Islamic State is hit hard enough, it may be killed, but nothing else will be fixed. The Mideast will continue in brutal chaos, but Islamic State, as Islamic State, will be done or at least damaged, and surely that is worth something. At the very least a message will be sent.

If the president were a more instinctive man, or rather if his natural instincts were more in line with those of your average American clinger, he would have moved quickly, sharply and without undue drama. He would have bombed Islamic State when it was a showy army in the field, its fighters driving stolen armored vehicles down highways in the sand, in their black outfits, with their black flags. They are not terrorists hiding in holes and safe houses. They are not doing Internet showbiz from caves, they are seizing and holding territory. They say they are the caliphate, and they intend to expand. They are killing and abusing many, not only Christians. They are something new and deadly.

My guess is two things are not acceptable to the American people. One is the full-scale commitment of scores of thousands of troops to invade and occupy a country. The other is a diffident, confused, unfocused, unserious campaign.

The American people are not suddenly recommitted to a decadeslong drama. They do want to see bad guys taken out. Their timetable, I suspect, would be "Let's start last month."
 
Bush read My Pet Goat while New York burned. I also can't recall him doing one single thing before 9/11. Without Googling, I bet few can.

Should Obama be playing golf? Probably not. I better not EVER see the next Republicant president playing golf. The world will be burning somewhere, and Fox News will have you believing Democrats started the fire because they hate America.
 
thank God W was clearing brush in a fictional land showing he was a "real man" instead of golfing

this country
 
Bush read My Pet Goat while New York burned. I also can't recall him doing one single thing before 9/11. Without Googling, I bet few can.

Should Obama be playing golf? Probably not. I better not EVER see the next Republicant president playing golf. The world will be burning somewhere, and Fox News will have you believing Democrats started the fire because they hate America.

Bush had been President for all of 5 minutes before 9/11 occurred. Hadn't even given his first State of the Union address, much less fully formulated any major policy initiatives. Attempting to lay the events of that day at his feet is a bit of a fool's errand -- if anything, Clinton deserves equal blame for not ensuring better national security protocols were in place prior to the attacks considering there were four major terrorist events perpetrated against the United States during his watch ... by extremist elements with ties to Al-Qaeda. One could even make the argument that Bush Sr. deserves some blame, too. Even Reagan, Carter... that is if you really want to get to the root of the issue as opposed to regurgitating highly subjective beliefs which simply reveal your own media proclivities (and political biases).

The criticisms levied against Obama as it pertains to his docility in international affairs have been lodged by BOTH the left and the right. That was highlighted earlier in this thread. Golf is the optic the media has chosen to cling to because it is symbolic of several years worth of diplomatic lethargy and stagnation that is very much Obama's responsibility -- to me, that's indisputable, although I'm sure others would argue against that opinion.

The fact chillingly remains: We are at War. Again. The fire is burning, quite robustly. Right here, right now.
 
Bush had been President for all of 5 minutes before 9/11 occurred. Hadn't even given his first State of the Union address, much less fully formulated any major policy initiatives. Attempting to lay the events of that day at his feet is a bit of a fool's errand -- if anything, Clinton deserves equal blame for not ensuring better national security protocols were in place prior to the attacks considering there were four major terrorist events perpetrated against the United States during his watch ... by extremist elements with ties to Al-Qaeda. One could even make the argument that Bush Sr. deserves some blame, too. Even Reagan, Carter... that is if you really want to get to the root of the issue as opposed to regurgitating highly subjective beliefs which simply reveal you own media proclivities (and political biases).

The criticisms levied against Obama as it pertains to his docility in international affairs have been lodged by BOTH the left and the right. That was highlighted earlier in this thread. Golf is the optic the media has chosen to cling to because it is symbolic of several years worth of diplomatic lethargy and stagnation that is very much Obama's responsibility -- to me, that's indisputable, although I'm sure others would argue against that opinion.

The fact chillingly remains: We are at War. Again.

brilliant

W was fresh on the job and then you go and show that the guy before him dealt with 4 "major terrorist attacks"

i love the right wing in this country

someday i hope we can get rid of the dumb idea of parties in this country
 
Polls do show an increase in those willing to commit troops, but only as part of an international coalition.

Stunning. I can't believe the country is warming to intervention again -- especially under what is tantamount to a shallow domestic threat, at this point, and in an operation (random bombing) which doesn't proffer any remotely clear exit scenario. Plus, international coalition? That term still seems politically toxic to me.

Of course ISIL needs to be dealt with -- somehow. I'm fairly hawkish in general, but there aren't a lot of appealing options at hand.
 
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