Braves Trade Heyward, Walden to Cardinals for Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

I'm going to wait to see whether this is Wren's fault or not before getting upset. If this is because of Wren, I see no reason to get upset or blame anyone else in the Braves organization. I also wouldn't mind someone letting us know all the terrible things about Heyward.
 
Joel Sherman
@Joelsherman1
Saw today that defense matters more than ever — huge in #Bluejays $ for Martin, #stlcards giving up Miller for Heyward
 
Tapate50 said:
Had a 2 flat era second half of last year. I think thats a good size sample to just be optimistic about.
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Not really considering he had a .214 BABIP against which is flukey as hell. He won't repeat that and then his ERA will jump into the 4 range again. He can't strike anybody out and just isn't that good.
 
thewupk said:
defense is valuable regardless of where it comes from. if you are saving runs then you are saving runs. and the braves will be giving up a lot back in 2015. Expect the team era to take a big hit.
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Except how many runs are they actually saving? It's all speculative, not finite.
 
Carp said:
Athleticism and potential, sure. He has the potential to be our best player. On actual production, it's not even close. I mean in what reality did Heyward have close to a good of a season as Stanton? Yet WAR would have you believe they were nearly equals. It's completely absurd to put that much value into defensive metrics considering how inconsistent they are. Yet people throw them out there like they are fact.
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The Cards put that much value into. And they are a winning organization. Keep thinking it doesn't matter.
 
NinersSBChamps said:
lol.

What makes this deal even more awesome is that Shelby was yanked from the starting rotation this past season.
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They wanted to protect him for this trade. Teams yank traded players all the time. The Cardinals just did it months in advance.
 
Carp said:
Except how many runs are they actually saving? It's all speculative, not finite.
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Jason saved 32 runs last year on defense. Runs created or any other advanced offensive stat is the same way. You just choose not to believe it.
 
Hart says that he had no sense that Heyward would agree to a deal. One party or the other is being disingenuous. I tend to believe Jason.

Hart has not exactly covered himself in glory in recent days. But hey he has done everything in a collegial Braves type of way.
 
thewupk said:
Not really considering he had a .214 BABIP against which is flukey as hell. He won't repeat that and then his ERA will jump into the 4 range again. He can't strike anybody out and just isn't that good.
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Lol, so now we have a crystal ball?

He has a 3.33 ERA in 370 innings pitched. But somehow he's a 4.00 ERA pitcher. Wow.
 
Carp said:
Lol, so now we have a crystal ball?

He has a 3.33 ERA in 370 innings pitched. But somehow he's a 4.00 ERA pitcher. Wow.
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Thinking ERA is the best way to measure a pitcher? WOW. He has a career 4.03 FIP. This trade is a huge bust for the Braves.
 
What do you expect him to say...I wanted a bazillion dollars so they traded me?

Hawk said:
David O'Brien
@DOBrienAJC
#Braves Heyward said he hoped team would approach him about long-term extension, & never did. "I made it clear to them I wanted to be here."

WHAT? Now I'm really ****ING pissed.
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thewupk said:
Do they also have bad defense in center and right? Because thats what the Braves will have in 2015.
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This is the same Cardinals team who for a few years recently was trotting out Holliday in LF and Allen Craig in RF. Check those defensive metrics.
 
Hawk said:
David O'Brien
@DOBrienAJC
#Braves Heyward said he hoped team would approach him about long-term extension, & never did. "I made it clear to them I wanted to be here."

WHAT? Now I'm really ****ING pissed.
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So if he really wants to be here 1) why couldn't he have approached the team and 2) why can't he re-sign here in the off season?

Something doesn't add up, but I have a feeling Jason's agent told the Braves what he'd be asking.
 
thewupk said:
Jason saved 32 runs last year on defense. Runs created or any other advanced offensive stat is the same way. You just choose not to believe it.
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I'm not getting info debate on the inconsistency of defensive stats and how they are valued. You choose to believe then if you wish. That doesn't make them any less inaccurate.
 
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