Barack Obama and Jason Heyward

[BedellBrave]

The racists are always the other guys. They are never "me."

 

[Oklahomahawk]

The racists are always the other guys. They are never "me."

Yeah, that's kinda what I was trying to say. I guess you're a little more succinct than I. lol

 

[weso1]

You can say that, I don't see any basis in it aside from the fact that more conservatives are white and the birther movement originated from a fringe element of the right. It's just a huge generalization and detractingly petty, IMO.

I think most of the criticism towards Obama has more to due with his ill-fated policies and style of leadership than it does with the color of his skin. The latter assertion seems like a mega cop-out and I think Obama himself would readily eschew it.

And I think a lot of the criticism is just simply because he plays for the other team. You going to tell me that Limbaugh and his listeners aren't going in dry on whoever the liberals throw out there? Come on. Same from the other side too. A good chunk of libs are going to hate on Walker when he becomes President, just because he's a pub.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

And I think a lot of the criticism is just simply because he plays for the other team. You going to tell me that Limbaugh and his listeners aren't going in dry on whoever the liberals throw out there? Come on. Same from the other side too. A good chunk of libs are going to hate on Walker when he becomes President, just because he's a pub.

God help us all if that POS gets in there. I'm not crazy about another Bush in the White House but I"d take him 10MILLION times in a row before that effing tool Walker. You'd might as well just put the Kochs in there directly at least then we could see the devils who are enslaving us.

 

[bravesnumberone]

My guess is if every voter in the country were John Hart, Obama would be traded to Iran. I'd say that's about the country equivalent of the Cardinals.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

My guess is if every voter in the country were John Hart, Obama would be traded to Iran. I'd say that's about the country equivalent of the Cardinals.

Do they do a lot of Tommy John surgeries over there?

 

[bravesnumberone]

Do they do a lot of Tommy John surgeries over there?

Rumor is they stockpile elbows.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

Rumor is they stockpile elbows.

Reallly? I heard the whole place was full of assholes?!?!?!??!?

 

[goldfly]

The racists are always the other guys. They are never "me."

The racist usually says some **** like this as well

 

[yeezus]

Correlating race hatred with conservatives is one of the most shameful, not to mention dangerous, things I've ever read on this board. Racism knows no political belief system.

but it is usually that side. Let's call a spade a spade. Is it everyone? No. I hear fox news nightly. Do they not speak for a lot of conservatives?

 

[yeezus]

Wasn't Hermain Cain taken pretty seriously for the right as a candidate until his romantic misgivings came out?

i don't think he was taken that seriously. if he was, it was due to a total lack of legitimate candidates from that side.

 

[The Tariff King]

As someone who likes to look at the political number crunching, there are certain factors that played into the 2012 and 2008 gains by the Dems (Obama) in places like Ohio.

I believe I remember on election night seeing some exit polls from 2004 where Banning Gay Marriage (a platform Bush ran on) was a hot button issue with upwards of 85%+ Ohioans saying it was an important voting issue. Fast forward 8 years later and the numbers on that issue have almost done a complete 180 in not just Ohio but several states.

 

[Tapate50]

i don't think he was taken that seriously. if he was, it was due to a total lack of legitimate candidates from that side.

He had some strong followings here in GA (home state). I guess that would make it seem like he was probably more of a contender from what I saw\heard that what everyone else perceived.

 

[Tapate50]

As someone who likes to look at the political number crunching, there are certain factors that played into the 2012 and 2008 gains by the Dems (Obama) in places like Ohio.

I believe I remember on election night seeing some exit polls from 2004 where Banning Gay Marriage (a platform Bush ran on) was a hot button issue with upwards of 85%+ Ohioans saying it was an important voting issue. Fast forward 8 years later and the numbers on that issue have almost done a complete 180 in not just Ohio but several states.

Conservatives needed to stop dividing their own, they should have stopped discussing social issues 3-5 elections ago.

 

[The Tariff King]

That's a pretty large assumption.

Again, it's a number that isn't quantifiable, but it does exist. Doesn't matter if it's an "assumption". The 2008 and 2012 campaigns were the definition of coded messaging to the red meat of the base. Started with McCain and Palin posing the "Is Obama a socialist?" question. Then towards the end of the campaign started using "Hussein" more and more in campaign rallies. You go most of the summer-fall without using "Hussein" but the last few weeks you use it blatantly because you know that name in particular because it creates a shroud of mystery as to who Obama is. Remember one of McCain's campaign moments where the old white lady said "I've heard rumors that Obama is a moslem". Firstly McCain shut her down saying "He's not, he's a good American that I just happen to disagree with".

Then 2012 primaries, the Gingrich line of "He's the food stamps President" which caught fire on the right big time. If you follow the nature of politics, you know the metaphor he's making to the base with a comment like that. "Black president giving more free handouts to lazy blacks".

In the post you quoted I stated that I don't think Obama won any presidential election because of his race.

You are arguing different facts then I am. You need to look at black voter rates in regards to how many blacks actually voted. That number increased significantly. Now some of that has nothing to do with race. Some of it has more to do with early voting, but I do think race played a role for obvious reasons.

There were other variables as to higher black turnout, the new voter ID laws definitely pissed off black communities.

Why do you think he's been criticized more harshly? I seem to remember Clinton being criticized very harshly from the right. He was impeached for heaven's sake. I think you just hear it more because more people are on the internet these days. Lots of trolls out there. Not so much during the Clinton years. Talk radio hammered Clinton though. I think you've got some pretty bad selective memory.

There are talking heads on the right who say "Obama doesn't even hold a candle to Clinton". So they hate Clinton, but at the same time if it means throwing Obama under the bus even more, they'll praise Clinton.

Wasn't Hermain Cain taken pretty seriously for the right as a candidate until his romantic misgivings came out?

Every candidate on the right lead polls during that primary season. Bachman lead, Cain lead, Santorum lead, Pawlenty lead, Gingrich lead. They were playing musical chairs at one point until Romney regained the base.

You can say that, I don't see any basis in it aside from the fact that more conservatives are white and the birther movement originated from a fringe element of the right. It's just a huge generalization and detractingly petty, IMO.

I think most of the criticism towards Obama has more to due with his ill-fated policies and style of leadership than it does with the color of his skin. The latter assertion seems like a mega cop-out and I think Obama himself would readily eschew it.

This picture sums up Obama's Presidency and his relationship with the right's base.

 

[The Tariff King]

Conservatives needed to stop dividing their own, they should have stopped discussing social issues 3-5 elections ago.

Social issues drive up turnout in primaries and general though. I've met and talked to conservatives here who say they would cast a vote for a pro-life or anti-gay marriage candidate first and foremost over the economy/taxes.

So politically, any candidate would be crazy not to use it. The problem is it severely hurts them in a general with the way the demographics and stances on social issues are shifting. Because of the judicial system helping out gay marriage now, the big social issue the right will have left is abortion.

 

[Julio3000]

Correlating race hatred with conservatives is one of the most shameful, not to mention dangerous, things I've ever read on this board. Racism knows no political belief system.

I'm curious to know what your interpretation of the Southern Strategy would be, or your thoughts on the famous Lee Atwater "n—, n—" quote.

Please don't misinterpret this question as a suggestion that conservatism = racism, but if you're going to drop a jewel like that, you need to somehow account for the fact that Republicans have held the south in part by stark appeals to racism. Certainly, culture and ideology are not the same thing, but they're pretty closely intertwined here. Could you expand on what that statement means, exactly? I mean, I don't disagree with the second sentence (turn-of-the-century Progressives had some horrific, racist ideas), but the idea that you're shocked—SHOCKED!—that conservatives might be accused of racism. I'll leave you with the man whom George Will called "...the preeminent voice of American conservatism and its first great ecumenical figure.":

"The central question that emerges . . . is whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not prevail numerically? The sobering answer is Yes — the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race. It is not easy, and it is unpleasant, to adduce statistics evidencing the cultural superiority of White over Negro: but it is a fact that obtrudes, one that cannot be hidden by ever-so-busy egalitarians and anthropologists."

—William F. Buckley, 1957

 

[Oklahomahawk]

This picture sums up Obama's Presidency and his relationship with the right's base.

I just wish more people could see how utterly full of shi-ite both of these polical parties and their groupie spin doctors really are. This may be the truest thing any of us will see here for a very long time and most people still can't see the truth in it, unless it bashes the other side instead of their side.

 

[Hawk]

Correlating race hatred with conservatives is one of the most shameful, not to mention dangerous, things I've ever read on this board. Racism knows no political belief system.

I'm curious to know what your interpretation of the Southern Strategy would be, or your thoughts on the famous Lee Atwater "n—, n—" quote.

Please don't misinterpret this question as a suggestion that conservatism = racism, but if you're going to drop a jewel like that, you need to somehow account for the fact that Republicans have held the south in part by stark appeals to racism. Certainly, culture and ideology are not the same thing, but they're pretty closely intertwined here. Could you expand on what that statement means, exactly? I mean, I don't disagree with the second sentence (turn-of-the-century Progressives had some horrific, racist ideas), but the idea that you're shocked—SHOCKED!—that conservatives might be accused of racism. I'll leave you with the man whom George Will called "...the preeminent voice of American conservatism and its first great ecumenical figure.":

"The central question that emerges . . . is whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not prevail numerically? The sobering answer is Yes — the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race. It is not easy, and it is unpleasant, to adduce statistics evidencing the cultural superiority of White over Negro: but it is a fact that obtrudes, one that cannot be hidden by ever-so-busy egalitarians and anthropologists."
—William F. Buckley, 1957

Before I respond completely, I'd like to know whether or not you consider the ideologies of guys like Nixon and Buckley and Atwater accurate representations of contemporary conservatism?

 

[Hawk]

Conservatives needed to stop dividing their own, they should have stopped discussing social issues 3-5 elections ago.

Except that social issues are perhaps literally the only thing about politics that the broader electorate understands.