Kimbrel/Melvin Trade Thread

Maybin's biggest obstacle lately seems to be health. He was mildly productive his last heathy season in 2012. Good defense, .300+ OBP, 26 steals. Considering what we've been used to at CF position the last 2 years, those type of numbers would seem like an all-star.

If somehow he can harness his 2011 self, we would be looking a very fine player. I don't expect that, but stranger things have happened.
 
Maybin at this point pretty much is what he is. May happen to strike it hot and OPS about .700 here and there, but more likely to be a guy with an OBP right around .300 with little power.

He and EY Jr. are pretty comparable, honestly. I mean, Maybin has basically the same WAR as BJ over the last 2 years if that tells you anything.

Looking at 2011 is like Padres fans getting excited over the possibility of BJ hitting like he did in Tampa.

28 isn't old, but it's definitely past 'could still reach his potential' level. At 28, you are what you are.
 
smootness said:
Maybin at this point pretty much is what he is. May happen to strike it hot and OPS about .700 here and there, but more likely to be a guy with an OBP right around .300 with little power.

He and EY Jr. are pretty comparable, honestly. I mean, Maybin has basically the same WAR as BJ over the last 2 years if that tells you anything.

Looking at 2011 is like Padres fans getting excited over the possibility of BJ hitting like he did in Tampa.

28 isn't old, but it's definitely past 'could still reach his potential' level. At 28, you are what you are.
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I don't think it's as much Maybin as it is EY Jr.
 
Carp said:
Now among these guys, I would definitely say Paps, Lidge, Uehera, and even Wilson reached elite status as closers, if only briefly.
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Elite is a level that last more than "great for a season or two," an odd All Star selection and in some of those cases you cited, good enough. None of those pitchers belong in the same category that Zito mentioned: Wagner, Hoffman and Rivera. We're not talking about somebody who just got hot at the right time. These closers had years of sustained excellence.

Braves history is littered with attempts at retreading those who had a great season or two: Bryan Harvey, Gregg Olson and attempt at capturing former glory with a true elite (by his era's standards) closer, Jeff Reardon. Braves had a decent chance of beating the Blue Jays if he was even average. He was outright washed up.

If you have a great team with good chemistry, you don't need elite level. You just need somebody who can get 3 outs in one inning. On an excellent team, somebody like Jordan Walden could do just fine.
 
Carp said:
I never said you need an elite closer. But you're making it out to be that none of the recent WS winners had elite closers. That's simply not true.

Paps is currently 16th on all time closers list and still going strong. He's averaged 39 saves per yr over the last 9 years. Lidge was absolutely an elite closer, even if only played 11 seasons.

Whether they're careers are as good as Rivera's is irrelevant. There was a time when both pitchers were considered as good or better than Rivera on a per yr basis. Playing your position well for 10 or 15 yrs or more is not a requirement for elite status. Would you consider Sandy Koufax to not be elite simply because he didn't pitch as long as Tom Glavine?
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Also Romo and Wilson were 'elite' in two of the years that the Giants won. Just becuase a team doesn't have an elite closer when they won doesn't mean they didn't get elite peformances from the closer position.
 
Only because Maybin has been injured for most of that time. Not that Maybin is awesome or anything, but if healthy he should prove much more useful than young.
 
Deleted my post on accident. Here it is again.

I never said you need an elite closer. But you're making it out to be that none of the recent WS winners had elite closers. That's simply not true.

Paps is currently 16th on all time closers list and still going strong. He's averaged 39 saves per yr over the last 9 years. Lidge was absolutely an elite closer, even if only played 11 seasons.

Whether they're careers are as good as Rivera's is irrelevant. There was a time when both pitchers were considered as good or better than Rivera on a per yr basis. Playing your position well for 10 or 15 yrs or more is not a requirement for elite status. Would you consider Sandy Koufax to not be elite simply because he didn't pitch as long as Tom Glavine?
 
Carp said:
Only because Maybin has been injured for most of that time. Not that Maybin is awesome or anything, but if healthy he should prove much more useful than young.
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2012 - Maybin 2.2 WAR in 147 games; EY - 1.7 WAR in 98 games.

Neither is very good, they both give you some good things here and there. People are giving too much value to the name Cameron Maybin. 2011 is the outlier; he's not good.
 
Carp said:
I But you're making it out to be that none of the recent WS winners had elite closers. That's simply not true.
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Wrong. You chose to interpret it that way. My point was only that a championship team does not need an elite/All World closer. Those were the exact words. Did not say that it was universal nor that there could not be exceptions. Truth be known, yeah, the Yankees could've still won at least a couple of WS with somebody less than Rivera.
 
Knucksie said:
Wrong. You chose to interpret it that way. My point was only that a championship team does not need an elite/All World closer. Those were the exact words. Did not say that it was universal nor that there could not be exceptions. Truth be known, yeah, the Yankees could've still won at least a couple of WS with somebody less than Rivera.
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Your post stated as follows:

"Of recent WS-winning teams, who were their closers? Nobody who was was even in the same area code as the names you mentioned. "

While that may be true in regards to their respective careers, it is not true in the context of when those players and their teams won the WS. Among recent WS Champs (within the last 10 years anyways), most of them DID have closers pitching at an elite/all world level that particular season. Whether those pitchers are considered "elite" or "all world" in their overall careers is irrelevant.
 
Carp said:
Your post stated as follows:

"Of recent WS-winning teams, who were their closers? Nobody who was was even in the same area code as the names you mentioned. "

While that may be true in regards to their respective careers, it is not true in the context of when those players and their teams won the WS. Among recent WS Champs (within the last 10 years anyways), most of them DID have closers pitching at an elite/all world level that particular season. Whether those pitchers are considered "elite" or "all world" in their overall careers is irrelevant.
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But that fits my narrative. Having a great closer isn't important as it is rolling with the right guy.
 
smootness said:
2012 - Maybin 2.2 WAR in 147 games; EY - 1.7 WAR in 98 games.

Neither is very good, they both give you some good things here and there. People are giving too much value to the name Cameron Maybin. 2011 is the outlier; he's not good.
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For one, you said the last couple of seasons. 2012 would not encompass that time frame.

Secondly, talk about an outlier. EYJ hasn't come close to repeating 2012 and never will. At least Maybin's 2011 isn't that far off from his career numbers. An outlier perhaps. In fact it likely is. But it wouldn't be bizarre if he repeated that or something closer to that. EYJ also played well over half his games as a corner OF at Coors.

Again I don't expect much from Maybin. But he is indeed a much better defender, and offensively he should be better. May be not significantly better, but better nonetheless.
 
Neither Maybin or Young are very good. My guess is the Braves ar egonna hope EY gets hot and they can spin him to a team who needs a 4th OF.
 
zitothebrave said:
Neither Maybin or Young are very good. My guess is the Braves ar egonna hope EY gets hot and they can spin him to a team who needs a 4th OF.
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They're probably gonna try and flip alot of guys.

Cahill, Grilli, Jim Johnson, CJ, few others.
 
zitothebrave said:
But that fits my narrative. Having a great closer isn't important as it is rolling with the right guy.
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I never disagreed that you don't need an elite level closer. I even mentioned that the Cards and 2014 Giants are probably the best example for that argument.

The only point I was making is that several of the last few WS winners have, indeed, had closers performing at an elite level.
 
They have 2 years to develop a good closer. One of the starting pitching prospects will probably end up being that closer.
 
Carp said:
Your post stated as follows:

"Of recent WS-winning teams, who were their closers? Nobody who was was even in the same area code as the names you mentioned. "

While that may be true in regards to their respective careers, it is not true in the context of when those players and their teams won the WS. Among recent WS Champs (within the last 10 years anyways), most of them DID have closers pitching at an elite/all world level that particular season. Whether those pitchers are considered "elite" or "all world" in their overall careers is irrelevant.
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I'm not interested in debating with you, because you try to misconstrue my post. Uhahru (sp.?) is not of the caliber of Hoffman.

Now you've wasted enough of my time. Another addition to the ignore list.
 
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