2016 Presidential Primaries [ SUPER TUESDAY | 3-1-'16]

sturg33 said:
I'd rather you just tell me
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I did.

The war alone could have crippled the economy.
Though I'm sure you will say, sans data to back up your claim, it was Clinton or Obama's fault.

Face it, Jeb is taking advise from the people that took us into Iraq and / or advised policies that demolished the economy.

Iraq is my specific
 
sturg33 said:
Iraq didn't cause the financial collapse in 08
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Yeah, saying Iraq caused the financial collape of 08 is just wrong. We know why the collapse in 08 happened. Unchecked banks gave out terrible loans on a bloated promise, that housing values would continue to go up. When they stopped going up (as they inevitably would) they bubble burst
 
sturg33 said:
Iraq didn't cause the financial collapse in 08
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The same hubris and greed that took us into Iraq was the same hubris and greed that collapsed the economy.

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Iraq has to do with this election only that Jeb has the same cast of characters leading him.
Both economic policy and foreign
 
zitothebrave said:
Yeah, saying Iraq caused the financial collape of 08 is just wrong. We know why the collapse in 08 happened. Unchecked banks gave out terrible loans on a bloated promise, that housing values would continue to go up. When they stopped going up (as they inevitably would) they bubble burst
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would you include squandering a surplus , deregulation and un balanced tax cuts ?
Not to mention taxing the economy with an unpaid for war ?
 
57Brave said:
would you include squandering a surplus , deregulation and un balanced tax cuts ?
Not to mention taxing the economy with an unpaid for war ?
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Unless that surplus went to paying people's mortgages, coudln't see it. And in a way Bush helped with that with his tax cuts. Deregulation of the banking industry happened in the Clinton era, so you can't blame bush for that.

Riegel-Neal Institute Banking and Branching Efficiency Act - eliminated interstate banking and branching restrictions
Citicor-Travelers merger - merging a big bank and an insurance giant, Clinton's admin could have stopped.
Graham-Leach-Bliley Act - ELiminates Glass-Steagall act.

ALl happened during Clinton's administration. Clinton's era probably saw the most bank deregulation of any modern president. NOt that I expect you to admit that.

I don't see how the war played a part in taxing the economy. Sure I"d much rather have used the money elsewhere. I'm not supporter of the war, but it would have likely gone to waste or just reduced the deficit. Taxes were never raised under bush
 
We shouldn't have been there but that is not the main issue. It was both Cheney and Obama's policies that is not working. Obama wanted to spend more money on an idea and did not address the issue left to him, he actually kept it going and THEN SOME.

Obama wanted a healthcare system that the government can control and has for the most part and it has been detrimental to a lot, but I give him credit on one thing and the only thing I like about the system when you have issues that other insurances would not touch. He is failing getting the other insurances to take on those who have conditions already. But I understand their issue with this, it costs a lot of money.

I am fighting a emergency room charge of $2300, when no blood work, or any work was done, I was there 8 hours and only see people for 20 minutes total. This is the problem. They knew I had prime insurance and charged my insurance $1200 of that. When I ask for how much when I got there, they said $550, okay no big deal, when they went to my insurance they bill the max they could. Where was Obamacare? I was telling my wife if I have to pay out of my ass for care for me, you, the kids, I rather take the hit in taxes considering the money I could save (new pool down the drain).
 
57Brave said:
The same hubris and greed that took us into Iraq was the same hubris and greed that collapsed the economy.

////
Iraq has to do with this election only that Jeb has the same cast of characters leading him.
Both economic policy and foreign
Click to expand...

Nobody's arguing that Iraq wasn't a disaster... shame on Hilary for supporting it.

But it had little if anything to do with the 08 crash - and if you can't get that, there's not point discussing further with you
 
I have to admit I have learned a lot about the melt down in the past 24 hours. REading ideas that back my original thought and those that smack it right up side the head.

My point is / was never that the Iraq War was the sole source of the 2008 meltdown but a contributor and a huge symbol of Bush 43 governance.
So yes, Sturg and Zito are right, the War was not the cause of the recession. On the surface - straw that broke the camels back reason.

However I have read insightful writing on how being off of the gold standard contributed. The article I am posting talks about many many years of military build up contributed the housig bubble of course , the Bush tax cuts left the economy with no New Deal style fall back etc etc etc .

Again, Jeb is using the same advisers George used that not only got us into 2 senseless unending wars but oversaw the crash of the economy

///////////////////////////////////
from Feb 2008

"Global confidence in the US economy has reached zero, as was proved by last month’s stock market meltdown. But there is an enormous anomaly in the US economy above and beyond the subprime mortgage crisis, the housing bubble and the prospect of recession: 60 years of misallocation of resources, and borrowings, to the establishment and maintenance of a military-industrial complex as the basis of the nation’s economic life"

http://mondediplo.com/2008/02/05military
 
57Brave said:
I have to admit I have learned a lot about the melt down in the past 24 hours. REading ideas that back my original thought and those that smack it right up side the head.

My point is / was never that the Iraq War was the sole source of the 2008 meltdown but a contributor and a huge symbol of Bush 43 governance.
So yes, Sturg and Zito are right, the War was not the cause of the recession. On the surface - straw that broke the camels back reason.

However I have read insightful writing on how being off of the gold standard contributed. The article I am posting talks about many many years of military build up contributed the housig bubble of course , the Bush tax cuts left the economy with no New Deal style fall back etc etc etc .

Again, Jeb is using the same advisers George used that not only got us into 2 senseless unending wars but oversaw the crash of the economy

///////////////////////////////////
from Feb 2008

"Global confidence in the US economy has reached zero, as was proved by last month’s stock market meltdown. But there is an enormous anomaly in the US economy above and beyond the subprime mortgage crisis, the housing bubble and the prospect of recession: 60 years of misallocation of resources, and borrowings, to the establishment and maintenance of a military-industrial complex as the basis of the nation’s economic life"

http://mondediplo.com/2008/02/05military
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To me, W. was simply the period at the end of the sentence that really started with Reagan (in policy terms because the sentiment goes way back). For all his blather about government always being the problem, Reagan never really invoked upon the citizenry that you don't get something for nothing and that the hidden welfare state goes all the way up the line. Everybody's all about individualism until there's potholes all over the street. Then government is supposedly come in and magically fill those holes with free pixie dust. I don't blame Reagan completely, but the mentality that you can get a European style buffet of services for a nickel per dollar is kind of ludicrous. And somehow, that mentality has stuck with a bunch of the electorate of both the conservative and liberal persuasions.
 
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“Now, there’s one thing you might have noticed I don’t complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. “

GEORGE CARLIN
 
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