Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours...

ESP47 said:
I agree with most of this.

You question how much do American's really need to live and I'll counter with how much do CEO's need to live? To say that all we need to live is health, food and shelter is true to it's core but don't you think the world has moved far beyond that? To me that's the thinking we should have had 100+ years ago. With all the technological advancements we have these days, we are far beyond just having to settle for health, food and shelter. Why can't we all live to the fullest extent? Why are only a select few allowed to live that way?

You are correct about not supporting products that are made overseas but is it realistic to live these days without owning a single foreign made product? The world has changed to where we are forced to own products made in sweat shops. If you don't, you can't work. You can't just walk into an office building and fill out and application. It's all done online. How are you going to find a fully made American computer to apply? I highly doubt those 50 year old computers that filled up entire rooms are going to be able to get you online to apply.

By lowering wages they are essentially forcing us to buy Chinese garbage. How can people afford to buy products made in the USA if they aren't being paid correctly for the work they do? Corporations know this and they know that by lowering our wages, we are essentially forced to buy their cheaply made products overseas because we have no other recourse. It's a racket. Hell, people can't even start American made businesses these days. How can you compete with sweat shop labor? It's impossible. Your products will be priced right out of the market and you'll be bankrupt in no time. Very very few people can break into the market and be successful these days. That's not the American dream.
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I think the essence of the problem is class-struggle within the capitalist system, which is exampled very well in this thread. You have some people that are on this extended harangue against the wealthy, but that doesn't entirely make sense to me. Aren't we taught to accumulate wealth? Isn't liquidity the most prominent marker of success in our society? Isn't that what we all dream about, work to achieve? Someone is smoking the good **** if they actually think people are working for a better society.

To be clear: I'm not advocating for the 1%, or even the top 30% -- but to not at least acknowledge why we're currently in the position that we're in is problematic.

And the reason I think we're in said position is because we have a warped ideal of what 'living life to the fullest extent' actually is. Some here say the country wants European socialism - OK, that's fine and good, but are they prepared to actually start living within their means as the vast majority of Europeans do? I just don't think it's in our collective blood. We're too used to getting exactly what we want, when we want it. The Europeans don't live that way. They are, by and large, very content with the three tenets of a 'good life' that I mentioned earlier.

I thought that the excesses of the capitalist tide was reversing when this country was in the throes of the economic recession a few years ago. Everybody was made very aware of the exorbitant amount of money that big businesses/the financial elite were accruing, and wasting ... a time when 'golden parachute' was on the tip of all tongues. Now, suddenly, it's almost as though we're back at square one. People want to bitch about how hard it is to find a job? Try graduating in 2009. There was nothing -- at all -- for years.

I disagree with your approach for righting the ship. I think giving Americans MORE money to waste on Chinese **** is the worst possible thing that we could do. We need to bring manufacturing back to America, protect and advantage those businesses who have chosen to base their chief operations domestically, create an environment where working as a skilled laborer is not considered sub-standard employment (which, I'll grant you, might be best achieved by higher wages -- but there are other ways, too ... lucrative benefits programs being one).

And we, as the general public, need to give the collective finger to companies like Apple (who just ordered 90 million iPhone 6s phones to be built by nimble Foxconn fingers) and stop acting like such lemmings. Find an American made phone, or build one in your ****ing garage. It's not like we haven't done it before. Plus, it's not like the Chinese have any trouble filling their homes with 100% Chinese goods, AMIRITE?

Tesla is a great example of a company that's doing things the right way. Let's put a ton of pressure on the politicians who are protecting other 'American' companies by attempting to derail Musk's ambitions and business model.
 
We absolutely need to incentivize American business for keeping business here but those incentives are goingto have to be quite lucrative to deter them from using the cheap labor available overseas.
 
Hawk said:
I think the essence of the problem is class-struggle within the capitalist system, which is exampled very well in this thread. You have some people that are on this extended harangue against the wealthy, but that doesn't entirely make sense to me. Aren't we taught to accumulate wealth? Isn't liquidity the most prominent marker of success in our society? Isn't that what we all dream about, work to achieve? Someone is smoking the good **** if they actually think people are working for a better society.

To be clear: I'm not advocating for the 1%, or even the top 30% -- but to not at least acknowledge why we're currently in the position that we're in is problematic.

And the reason I think we're in said position is because we have a warped ideal of what 'living life to the fullest extent' actually is. Some here say the country wants European socialism - OK, that's fine and good, but are they prepared to actually start living within their means as the vast majority of Europeans do? I just don't think it's in our collective blood. We're too used to getting exactly what we want, when we want it. The Europeans don't live that way. They are, by and large, very content with the three tenets of a 'good life' that I mentioned earlier.

I thought that the excesses of the capitalist tide was reversing when this country was in the throes of the economic recession a few years ago. Everybody was made very aware of the exorbitant amount of money that big businesses/the financial elite were accruing, and wasting ... a time when 'golden parachute' was on the tip of all tongues. Now, suddenly, it's almost as though we're back at square one. People want to bitch about how hard it is to find a job? Try graduating in 2009. There was nothing -- at all -- for years.

I disagree with your approach for righting the ship. I think giving Americans MORE money to waste on Chinese **** is the worst possible thing that we could do. We need to bring manufacturing back to America, protect and advantage those businesses who have chosen to base their chief operations domestically, create an environment where working as a skilled laborer is not considered sub-standard employment (which, I'll grant you, might be best achieved by higher wages -- but there are other ways, too ... lucrative benefits programs being one).

And we, as the general public, need to give the collective finger to companies like Apple (who just ordered 90 million iPhone 6s phones to be built by nimble Foxconn fingers) and stop acting like such lemmings. Find an American made phone, or build one in your ****ing garage. It's not like we haven't done it before. Plus, it's not like the Chinese have any trouble filling their homes with 100% Chinese goods, AMIRITE?

Tesla is a great example of a company that's doing things the right way. Let's put a ton of pressure on the politicians who are protecting other 'American' companies by attempting to derail Musk's ambitions and business model.
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We are taught to accumulate wealth but you don't grow up preparing yourself to step on millions of peoples necks to accumulate wealth. I have zero problem with people being rich but how rich is too rich? There comes a point where your accumulation is now a detriment to the world. If you're going to look at the American people side eyed because they're constantly wanting to go out and purchase the newest and greatest iPhone, then you have to look at those corporations equally as side eyed. The problem is that this country is ran on power hungry sociopaths that feel absolutely zero empathy for anyone other than themselves, their families and friends. Everyone else in this world is just disposable trash to them. When our founding fathers drummed this whole thing up a few hundred years ago, this situation that we're in right now is exactly what they worked so hard to get away from.

I agree with your approach to righting the ship and my approach wasn't just to fill the pockets of American's with more money. The jobs need to be here on our soil, made by our hands for an appropriate wage. The CEO/Owner has a right to be rich but does he really need to be so rich that his employees are basically enslaved? You'll never see changes there because people are too busy either not caring or they are brainwashed like sturg into defending the very thing that holds them back. I partially do my part by spending the extra few dollars to buy made in the USA. I drive an old car that was built here and buy original American made parts. But once that money leaves my hand, it most likely ends up in a Walmart cash register while that person buys some poorly made chinese garbage with it.

You have to be either extremely smart and creative or financially gifted to be able to start a lucrative business these days. The market is completely dominated by just a handful of corporations. Not everyone out there is naturally intelligent enough to just build a smart phone in their garage but they are intelligent enough to build, tweak or manage that product. What Tesla is doing is great but it's not feasible that any Joe Blow out there can just go out in his garage and design a Tesla automobile.

Part of the problem is that we have a 42 page and counting thread on here discussing the same candidates from the same pool that we always get. Why are we even wasting one second talking about these people? Why are the brainwashed masses even considering voting for a guy who comes from a bloodline that will send your ass to a certain death to pad their wallets? It's absolutely insane. We would all be better off voting in any dip**** off the street, like Zito, who at least shows some shred of common sense when it comes to politics. At least discuss someone who hasn't already been bought and paid for.
 
thethe said:
We absolutely need to incentivize American business for keeping business here but those incentives are goingto have to be quite lucrative to deter them from using the cheap labor available overseas.
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Offshore sourcing really won't be an issue in 5 years or so. Foreign companies are bringing in jobs and a huge chunk of domestic companies who were outsourcing have stopped doing that. So not only is the amount of offshore sourcing signficantly declining, but we're starting to see foreign countries bring jobs into the US.

I personally believe outsourcing is now a net good. It helps develop positive relationships with countries that might be less inclined to do so if we didn't ship a bunch of jobs over. It gives jobs to actual real poor people in the world. Better than what they would be doing. In a lot of cases it increases a company's revenue which should lead to more tax revenue.

"Stop sending jobs offshore" is really just a hollow political line.

Look, if you want every American a chance to have a job you do 2 things.

1) Better education and training. That's 3-4 million jobs right there.

2) Shut down the borders and deport illegal aliens. That's 8 million minimum wage or thereabout jobs. For the poorest of the poor.

Don't even need to add jobs.

The funny thing is that liberals grump and moan about illegal aliens and how we should feel bad for them and they need the work and all that, but they could give two craps about the poor folks in other countries who the outsourced jobs are going to.
 
Jobs arenot sent overseas to develop positive relationships.

Even if it does, that again only helps the wealthy. The whole system is rigged for the further advancement of consolidation of wealth. We are fed these stories about all the good the wealthy are doing when in fact the total impact on the ledger is a strong negative.

The only reason jobs are sent overseas is to make more profits. That is it.
 
thethe said:
Jobs arenot sent overseas to develop positive relationships.

Even if it does, that again only helps the wealthy. The whole system is rigged for the further advancement of consolidation of wealth. We are fed these stories about all the good the wealthy are doing when in fact the total impact on the ledger is a strong negative.

The only reason jobs are sent overseas is to make more profits. That is it.
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Exactly.

Tell that to the 459 IT people with 4 year degrees whose job were shipped overseas so they can save $15 an hour.
 
Even the large accounting firms are sending jobs overseas. Based on regulations they can only outsource very menial jobs but its again taking good paying jobs out of the US and sending them to India.

Its a joke what this country is becoming and for some reason a large portion of our population is ok with it.
 
The local need is for employees that have 2\3 of these:

Clean driving record
Clean criminal record
Pass a drug test

Most employers are looking passed one of these just to get someone to work. 11 months out of the year someone that can pass all three here locally can not only get a pretty good paying job with benefits, but retirement plan co-contributed by their employer too.
 
Tapate50 said:
The local need is for employees that have 2\3 of these:

Clean driving record
Clean criminal record
Pass a drug test

Most employers are looking passed one of these just to get someone to work. 11 months out of the year someone that can pass all three here locally can not only get a pretty good paying job with benefits, but retirement plan co-contributed by their employer too.
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Name the area and pay rate.

I can pretty much work anywhere but my wife changes her mind when I said I will leave and work there, then she finds the spiders are too big, taxes are too high, the weather is too wet, or it is too hot. I gave up trying to leave and my boss is happy.
 
AerchAngel said:
Name the area and pay rate.

I can pretty much work anywhere but my wife changes her mind when I said I will leave and work there, then she finds the spiders are too big, taxes are too high, the weather is too wet, or it is too hot. I gave up trying to leave and my boss is happy.
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SW GA, pest control techs or commercial drivers that I've heard about. Drivers by the mile or salary 40k+ and pest control techs I'd say start around that but can move to more quickly if you can be efficient at it.
 
thethe said:
Oh yeah, workforce participation is at an all time low because his buddies and the rest of these greedy wealthy individuals are sending jobs overseas for even cheaper labor. Very convenient. Take our jobs away and say its our fault.
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Its like hiring a roofer. Do you hire the Mexican worker that will send over 12 guys and do it in a day or pay 3x as much and have someone spend 4 days working on the roof?
 
gilesfan said:
Its like hiring a roofer. Do you hire the Mexican worker that will send over 12 guys and do it in a day or pay 3x as much and have someone spend 4 days working on the roof?
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The global implications of that choice pale in comparison to that of what the wealthy are doing in this country.
 
AerchAngel said:
No, tax them to the point it is equivalent to what they should make here.

At Rockwell Collins, the union tried to get higher wages, from 22 to 25 an hour for factory workers, most of them with an equivalent of a GED. Well they push them to taking almost all of the higher wagers out of the equation and built a factory in Mexico which those workers are making half, but to them it is like middle class, no benefits.

You see we can't do anything about that, but normal items you see at Target, Sam's Club, Wallyworld, those things are cheap and cheaply made on others backs, hit them with an import tax of similar to what we pay for their normal work, instead of 7.25, give them 11 an hour. I think Costco is doing it now and they should be a blueprint on how to treat workers.

No CEO is worth 25 mil a year for a bonus, NONE.
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What would people say if Wal-Mart stopped exporting jobs and money overseas and had to increase their "everyday low prices?" How does that have an effect on the poor?
 
gilesfan said:
What would people say if Wal-Mart stopped exporting jobs and money overseas and had to increase their "everyday low prices?" How does that have an effect on the poor?
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There wouldn't be as many poor in this country and then it would allow others to actually open up their own stores and compete with Walmart therefore creating more wealth for more people.
 
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