Farewell to Wood, Peraza, Jimmy Johns, and Avilans.

Hawk said:
If St. Louis wins the World Series they won the **** out of the deal.
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One year of Heyward to get you to the playoffs (and maybe win it all) vs. the control and current and future possible production of Miller and Jenkins? Can't blame the Cards for taking a shot given the direction both sides were going at the time of the deal.

Have to admit that sounds a whole lot like payback for the Drew/Wainright deal to me personally though.
 
zitothebrave said:
OK I'm back on board with fire Jon Hart. This move makes 0 sense in a rebuild. Trading young controllable players for an older guy who hasn't played in the bigs and may need Tommy John? Add that neither Bird or Rodriguez is that intriguing. Just a ****ty trade. Olivera better win a damned MVP
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I don't know if you saw the news or not. But thethe confirmed Wood will have another TJ in the next 2 years so we got good value.
 
As for the Wood deal, I'm warming to it a bit, but need a little more time to let it sink in and percolate over the overall long-term effect though.
 
zbhargrove said:
So lets give Heyward the credit for all those wins from 2010-2014?... lets not talk about having McCann in his prime or still having a productive Chipper through some of that time? Let's ignore than Heyward was awful at the plate for his last 2 years as a Brave?
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You might want to rethink your comment about dumbest thing you'eve eve read. If Heyward at a WRC+ 115 is awful then Markakis must be a disaster.
 
thewupk said:
You might want to rethink your comment about dumbest thing you'eve eve read. If Heyward at a WRC+ 115 is awful then Markakis must be a disaster.
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Smoke and mirrors which is typical from you... this has nothing to do with Markakis and I'm not a fan. Heyward was not very good at the plate the last two years as a Brave outside of a few hot streaks... he just wasn't.
 
zbhargrove said:
We didn't win with Heyward either... and he'd be gone next year... We have Miller for a long time. You say we forfeited signing Heyward to a long term deal, but we will go back to the song and dance if we have to... you have no idea if we offered him a deal... and based on his performance, he didn't deserve the money he was rumored to be seeking... not anywhere close to it.
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I think we did win with Heyward. We had winning records four out of five years.

Not that I think the record is the best way to judge a player. It is a 25 man roster after all. I would never say Miller was a bad player or not worth keeping based on our 2015 season. That would be pretty dumb.
 
clvclv said:
One year of Heyward to get you to the playoffs (and maybe win it all) vs. the control and current and future possible production of Miller and Jenkins? Can't blame the Cards for taking a shot given the direction both sides were going at the time of the deal.

Have to admit that sounds a whole lot like payback for the Drew/Wainright deal to me personally though.
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I'd counter that neither Miller or Jenkins were integral cogs in the Cardinals future plans. So you make the moves necessary, given your strengths, to put your team in the best possible position to win. It's worked out very well for them so far.
 
Hawk said:
I'd counter that neither Miller or Jenkins were integral cogs in the Cardinals future plans. So you make the moves necessary, given your strengths, to put your team in the best possible position to win. It's worked out very well for them so far.
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Like when we moved Odalis Perez (and another promising arm, Andrew Brown [I think]), for Gary Sheffield.
 
There's no way anybody can say we won the deal.

We gave up our #1 overall prospect, a young controlled consistent left handed starter, Jimmy Johns and we threw in Avilan for a 30 yr old player who's never had one at bat in the majors.

There's no reason we should have had to add Peraza or Wood on top of each other when we're already giving Johnson and throwing in Avilan.
 
Olivera better produce because nobody will trade much for him since hes an aging player with red flags. He has little trade value.
 
zbhargrove said:
So lets give Heyward the credit for all those wins from 2010-2014?... lets not talk about having McCann in his prime or still having a productive Chipper through some of that time? Let's ignore than Heyward was awful at the plate for his last 2 years as a Brave?
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Without looking it up, I'd bet a large sum of money that Heyward had the highest WAR on the braves during those 5 years.

And your comment about Heyward being awful offensively is the dumbest thing I've read
 
Heywood said:
There's no way anybody can say we won the deal.

We gave up our #1 overall prospect, a young controlled consistent left handed starter, Jimmy Johns and we threw in Avilan for a 30 yr old player who's never had one at bat in the majors.

There's no reason we should have had to add Peraza or Wood on top of each other when we're already giving Johnson and throwing in Avilan.
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No one's saying we won the deal... but just like every stupid thing in this forum... people still find a a way to cry about Heyward and crap on Miller even though he's been our best pitcher.
 
My God, you people are insufferable with the Heyward-Miller argument. As of this moment, it's a win for both teams. In the long run depends on Miller's success and whether Heyward re-signs with the Cardinals.
 
sturg33 said:
Without looking it up, I'd bet a large sum of money that Heyward had the highest WAR on the braves during those 5 years.

And your comment about Heyward being awful offensively is the dumbest thing I've read
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If he had the highest WAR, you know it was because of defense... and again... many analysts say WAR weighs defense too heavily.
 
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