It really is crazy - if you look at the man parts to this deal you would think we were the 1st place team and the Dodgers were building for the future. It seems some people are trying to come up with any way to justify this when the labels are really quite simple. We traded a healthy and productive 24 year old left handed pitcher under control + a top prospect that could either produce for us or have been used in another trade ... and the return is an injury prone 30 year old that has never had a professional at bat? Unless the plan is to sign Price, Grienke, Upton and Heyward, I just don't see how anyone can justify trading a 24 year old and 21 year old asset for someone that is 30 when we are in full rebuild mode. Needing a bat doesn't justify God awful trades. Maybe when we traded every single major league ready asset on our team we should have stopped twice to think maybe we should bring back offense in even one of these moves. Hart got obsessed with having to load up on excessive amounts of pitching and when he finally realized we need some offense he just gets absolutely taken to school. By the time this guy is good for us (if ever) he will already be declining physically. Trading guys like Heyward Upton etc sucked but I understood it - But this one is just unacceptable.
Farewell to Wood, Peraza, Jimmy Johns, and Avilans.
- Thread starter CrimsonCowboy
- Start date
It really is crazy - if you look at the man parts to this deal you would think we were the 1st place team and the Dodgers were building for the future. It seems some people are trying to come up with any way to justify this when the labels are really quite simple. We traded a healthy and productive 24 year old left handed pitcher under control + a top prospect that could either produce for us or have been used in another trade ... and the return is an injury prone 30 year old that has never had a professional at bat? Unless the plan is to sign Price, Grienke, Upton and Heyward, I just don't see how anyone can justify trading a 24 year old and 21 year old asset for someone that is 30 when we are in full rebuild mode. Needing a bat doesn't justify God awful trades. Maybe when we traded every single major league ready asset on our team we should have stopped twice to think maybe we should bring back offense in even one of these moves. Hart got obsessed with having to load up on excessive amounts of pitching and when he finally realized we need some offense he just gets absolutely taken to school. By the time this guy is good for us (if ever) he will already be declining physically. Trading guys like Heyward Upton etc sucked but I understood it - But this one is just unacceptable.
Just saying that would be a smart trade at that point. Let him showcase his ability, trade high on a guy with serious questions. Decent hitting is getting a good return on the market right now.
That's only if Ruiz comes along, though. Ruiz would be a much better option for us going forward than a guy Olivera's age, and we could continue adding young talent that way.
We should view Olivera as a piece that can help us, but as soon as there's any kind of logjam, he should be the one to go.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
Well said.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
See this is the type of rhetoric I'm talking about. His minor league numbers are really good. Why even say that last part? I mean you only mention the positives of Wood and the negatives of Olivera. I could just as easily say, I'd rather have the athletic 3B with the strong bat over the unorthodox delivery velocity declining starter.
From Hart:
“As we start to retool this offense, this is the first building block, I think,” Braves president of baseball operations John Hart said. “Look, we just don’t have the upper-level bats that are in the (minor league) system. We’re going to have to be creative in how we bring in some of these guys….
And whose fault is it we don't have those bats?? We dealt a multitude of players over the offseason and targeted pitching. So now we are going to get hosed in a deal to add bats? Where is the logic in that?
“As we start to retool this offense, this is the first building block, I think,” Braves president of baseball operations John Hart said. “Look, we just don’t have the upper-level bats that are in the (minor league) system. We’re going to have to be creative in how we bring in some of these guys….
And whose fault is it we don't have those bats?? We dealt a multitude of players over the offseason and targeted pitching. So now we are going to get hosed in a deal to add bats? Where is the logic in that?
I do agree with a lot of this, though not the part about the Heyward/Upton trades.
But I don't like that we're acting like we just realized the FA market for hitting was weak.
Well, he doesn't really have minor league numbers. He's played 19 games at any level outside Cuba. That's the point.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
They had been winning me over too, esp. with the Upton deals among others. But wow this one was awful and the last one was closer to what striker said than how most spun it IMO.
I suppose if you can call a relief pitcher a prospect. But this isn't exactly Kimbrell we're getting as a prospect. Bird has talent, but isn't a top level prospect. Certainly not any more valuable than someone like Ricardo Sanchez.
ChapelHillMatt
Approaching Buddy Hernandez Territory
They have done a good job but not every trade they make will be good. You don't have to blindly support them.you even said yourself earlier in the thread (when you found out who was in the deal) that there should be a significant return. Now after you find out what the trade is you go into spin mode and try to paint a positive picture no matter how bad it looks. You have a tendency to do this with every trade. I get that you are an optimist but just because someone is against a trade that doesn't mean they have an axe to grind with the front office. This trade just makes no sense for a team trying to rebuild. We gave away more young talent than we are getting back and we added payroll.
He's talking about the draft pick, which definitely could turn out to be a good piece.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
That is exactly the danger in what they did. The went overkill in one area and now are trying to fix that with a desperation move. Terrible plan.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
I'll give you credit, you've been borderline homer on everything recently (I say borderline because it's tough to be against most things we've done). I just disagree that this is an awful deal, and again: I haven't seen anyone outside this board think it is terrible for us. that can sometimes tell you something.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
yes national writers who have no ties to the Braves are "trying to come up with reasons." a lot remains to be seen with this trade, but clearly people - outside this board, even - don't think the Braves were robbed. to declare anything right now like we know the outcome is just silly.
I obviously hope this deal ends up being amazing. Any team can win any deal. If Olivera stays relatively healthy and produces, Bird becomes something, and the pick turns into good talent while Peraza never becomes much and Wood falters, then awesome.
I just really don't like it and don't like what it means for our overall long-term plan.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
That quote gives me a lot of hope. To state that this is the first building block. I'm excited to see how the offense evolves from here. I think Hart gets that the offense needs a lot of help.
This is true. That will be an extremely anticipated debut, considering what we gave up.
I like that it looks like we'll be aggressive in adding offense; I just hope we don't continue to overpay or to give up young talent for guys already in or at the end of their prime.