Oh really? Like who?
Around Baseball 2015 Edition
- Thread starter NinersSBChamps
- Start date
Oh really? Like who?
Minaya? Someone will give Amaro a job again. Ed Wade?
The 2015 Mets remain, at the least, as much a reflection on their last GM as their current one. Duda, Daniel Murphy, Wilmer Flores, Lagares, Kirk Nieuwenhuis, Ruben Tejada, Jeurys Familia, Bobby Parnell, the now-suspended Jenrry Mejia and four-fifths of the rotation — Harvey, deGrom, Dillon Gee and Jon Niese — were brought in by Minaya, and David Wright was drafted when Minaya was the assistant GM.
Just sayin' ...
zbhargrove
Well-known member
I don't think anyone is disputing that Wren had some success... but if he was falling behind the sabermetric curve as has been speculated in the industry and was alienating good people he was supposed to be working with... Boston can have him. I know you can't let it go, but he was just not very good... and the team was not headed in the right direction. I don't know how you could watch us play last year and have a different opinion.
Still waiting ...
zbhargrove
Well-known member
The Don already answered your question with 3 good examples... so no... you really aren't
So three 'good' examples (not to mention that Amaro hasn't even been fired yet, and Minaya wasn't clearly wasn't horrible) suddenly translates into "it happens all the time"?
Lol, ok.
Relying on other people to make your poorly founded arguments -- just a wee bit typical.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
BUT, we weren't winning, and had no farm system. That is a recipe for disaster.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Hart is apparently awful and he got another job ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
besides, I'm not sure many people, if any, think Wren was bad. I don't think he was a bad GM, it was just time for him and his direction to go elsewhere. Especially if he wanted to go for it this season.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Yah JS and Hart together... with their World Series victories don't count because all their skill is suddenly gone... now they are just crazy "good ole' boys..."
Some success?
We've been through this: Frank Wren's Braves won more games than any other NL team except the Cardinals, went to the playoffs thrice (nearly 4 times), and accomplished all of this despite Wren having inherited a ****ty roster with a relatively minuscule payroll and resources.
There's no questioning that that the Braves were a successful team under Wren's tenure unless you are obtuse.
If you want to get wrapped up in the all the 'industry sources' (aka John Schuerholz and McGuirk) hooey, then have at it. It's completely unsubstantiated, kind of like the notion that he 'ran off all the good baseball people' -- yeah, that reputation really followed him into apparent contention for a Top 5 GM Spot.
And no sabermetric guys? Uh, Coppy?
Teams have bad years. Look at Washington. Look at Miami.
Yeah, the future looks bright, but I don't believe that Wren couldn't have pulled off a similar rebuild if he was tasked with said responsibility. He didn't want to, so the Braves found someone who would. End of story.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Its impossible to have a discussion with Wren homers... if you want to cherry pick the reports and only believe what fits your denial point of view... that's fine
I'm actually presenting fact -- you are presenting two unnamed, unidentified quotes (the Fangraph one likely a miscommunication of the original quote about Wren 'running off' people with his explosive temperament and dictatorial management style) which appear to be nothing more than a slimy character assault.
If you want to base your point of view on uncarefully crafted bull****, then that's your prerogative. Otherwise, give me a reason not to support Wren outside of misaligned homerism.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
And if he wanted to go for it this year, it would've been a massive, long-lasting mistake. We needed to retool the farm really badly. It was completely barren and we had hardly any young pitching. Going for it this year, then letting JUp and Heyward walk for draft picks would have been disastrous. Unless you seriously think we had a shot at the WS if we kept last year's team mostly together.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
He was a pretty highly ranked prospect at one time and didn't pan out until later.
Well Frank Wren is one. Run out of Baltimore. Kevin Towers is another. And those are the first two I thought of without googling.
So we've come up with 5 names, only two of whom are actually bad, within the past decade and a half. Eggscellent.
Oh, check out this gem:
Under Wren's direction this season, the Orioles began accumulating young talent at an unprecedented pace, stocking a depleted farm system that had not produced a home-grown, everyday player for the Orioles since Cal Ripken in 1982.
Wren made pitching his focus, acquiring Jason Johnson from Tampa Bay during spring training and getting four young pitchers in trades for Juan Guzman and Harold Baines in July and August. In the June draft, the Orioles held a record 11 of the first 50 picks, and chose pitchers with the first three. In the following weeks, Wren successfully signed the team's 13 highest draft picks.
---
Ring any bells?
Inheriting a ****ty team? Say what?
He inherited a club that featured Tex, Chipper, Mac, Yunel, KJ, and Prado among others. Now the rotation wasn't fantastic outside of Smoltz and Hudson, but he had an entire offseason to fix that and only brought in JJ and a washed up Tom Glavine (who he wasted a 1st round pick on no less).
Not to mention, he inherited one of the best farms in baseball and when he left it was one of the worst.
Considering the team just gut the farm 3 months prior for Tex I wouldn't say we were one of the best farms in baseball at that time.