Chacin About to be Traded to Angels

I was really annoyed by the trade at first, but the more I read about this kid, if he can fix his control and start moving up rather quickly... he's got some real potential for a useful bullpen piece. That's valuable.
 
Tapate50 said:
Lot of moves we have made most feel there was more out there to be had...

Sign of bad FO and poor judgement on value ?

Or

Sign of really smart fans or fans not familiar with true value ?
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As I find myself saying on every trade we make these days... this type of logic implies that we can never question the trade or dislike it because : 1. We don't know the other offers and 2. The FO knows more than a bunch of message board posters.
 
sturg33 said:
As I find myself saying on every trade we make these days... this type of logic implies that we can never question the trade or dislike it because : 1. We don't know the other offers and 2. The FO knows more than a bunch of message board posters.
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Not at all, I just can't state something as fact when it basically assumes we took less than what was offered or available. I have a feeling we were in no hurry to move him and we basically dug through their system to find an upside guy we like. They really don't have the upper hand needing pitchin so badly. This strikes me like the Gant trade that people pretty much hated as well.
 
Tapate50 said:
Not at all, I just can't state something as fact when it basically assumes we took less than what was offered or available. I have a feeling we were in no hurry to move him and we basically dug through their system to find an upside guy we like. They really don't have the upper hand needing pitchin so badly. This strikes me like the Gant trade that people pretty much hated as well.
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nope, it has been determined that you can't compare McCreery to Gant.. and since A=1 and 1=Cow, A = Cow... so you just said McCreery is just like Gant..
 
zitothebrave said:
THis is the kind of trade that it makes sense to make. Chacin is a career meh pitcher. We signed him and turned him into a project prospect. If you can fix McCreery, he has big stuff. If you can't you're out a mediocre pitcher ona terrible team.
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This. At this point Chacin was just taking up innings that should be used breaking in a youngster. The added major league experience for these young pitchers could pay huge dividends and get the Braves back on track sooner than wasting playing time on guys like Chacin.
 
I do think fans generally overrate their own assets.

Chacin could have kept pitching, performing well and still wasn't going to bring much back as a journeyman #4 type starter on a FA deal. Holding onto Chacin for another month or two in the hope that we can maybe get a C- prospect instead of a D+ prospect doesn't really move the needle for me.

Its also entirely possible that he doesn't pitch well going forward or gets hurt and you get nothing.

I'm onboard and as Striker points out it opens up a spot for a younger pitcher to get his feet wet.
 
Preacher said:
I do think fans generally overrate their own assets.

Chacin could have kept pitching, performing well and still wasn't going to bring much back as a journeyman #4 type starter on a FA deal. Holding onto Chacin for another month or two in the hope that we can maybe get a C- prospect instead of a D+ prospect doesn't really move the needle for me.

Its also entirely possible that he doesn't pitch well going forward or gets hurt and you get nothing.

I'm onboard and as Striker points out it opens up a spot for a younger pitcher to get his feet wet.
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I still don't understand the hate on the return.. he is basically an unknown. He is 23 in A ball and we have a top prospect who is 22 and just starting A ball.. What do they have in common.. they had elbow issues. Like you and Striker said.. this opens a spot. could they have packaged him and some other piece to maybe get a B- prospect... maybe.. maybe not... But I am good with this trade. It is minor trade that might pay off.. but it won't hurt us..
 
Preacher said:
I do think fans generally overrate their own assets.

Chacin could have kept pitching, performing well and still wasn't going to bring much back as a journeyman #4 type starter on a FA deal. Holding onto Chacin for another month or two in the hope that we can maybe get a C- prospect instead of a D+ prospect doesn't really move the needle for me.

Its also entirely possible that he doesn't pitch well going forward or gets hurt and you get nothing.

I'm onboard and as Striker points out it opens up a spot for a younger pitcher to get his feet wet.
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I think fans never want to give up ANYTHING. I think most fans logically understand that you have to give to get in a trade. But, I think there is a strong subconscious effect that leads to a line of thinking that goes "someone has to go, but not this guy" or "this guy can go, but not for that guy."

I've always tried to look at the players relationship to where the team is now, their role in the near and long term, their current and long term value (aka what can they bring back and what does moving their financial commitment mean), do they have intrinsic value beyond the field, do they have an intrinsic value on the field, what is their likelihood of getting better, what is their likelihood of getting worse, what is their likelihood of injury, etc.

If you apply that criteria then Chacin is clearly, without question a tradable commodity. Then it becomes a valuation process for his worth, is the worth likely to go up or down, when to pull the trigger.

In this case, I think it comes down to what they think they are getting back in McCreery, which apparently the scouts like. I can't say that there is an obvious likelihood that the Braves would get anything better at any point. The question then becomes is the possibility of McCreery better than the innings Chancin could provide?
 
McCreery has been in the Arizona Summer League each of his two seasons. Last year, his number read like a prescription for a managerial heart attack

0-0, 2.41 (the good news) in 16 games, all in relief. He worked 18.2 innings, allowing 10 hits, 14 walks, 1 HBP, 4 wild pitches and 28 strikeouts. Only five earned runs allowed
 
rico43 said:
McCreery has been in the Arizona Summer League each of his two seasons. Last year, his number read like a prescription for a managerial heart attack

0-0, 2.41 (the good news) in 16 games, all in relief. He worked 18.2 innings, allowing 10 hits, 14 walks, 1 HBP, 4 wild pitches and 28 strikeouts. Only five earned runs allowed
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He's been very, very difficult to hit or even make contact against (13.5 Ks per 9). Considering his a 6-8 lefty that throws hard that's not surprising. The only real knock is his command. Again, as a 6-8 lefty that throws hard, that's not surprising.

Enormous pitchers often take a long, long time to figure out their mechanics. Randy Johnson was 29 before it all clicked. The mechanics for a pitcher that big are a nightmare. Often they never get fixed and the player never becomes anything. But when you have a player that does learn how to repeat a delivery they can be a tremendous weapon.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I think fans never want to give up ANYTHING. I think most fans logically understand that you have to give to get in a trade. But, I think there is a strong subconscious effect that leads to a line of thinking that goes "someone has to go, but not this guy" or "this guy can go, but not for that guy."

I've always tried to look at the players relationship to where the team is now, their role in the near and long term, their current and long term value (aka what can they bring back and what does moving their financial commitment mean), do they have intrinsic value beyond the field, do they have an intrinsic value on the field, what is their likelihood of getting better, what is their likelihood of getting worse, what is their likelihood of injury, etc.

If you apply that criteria then Chacin is clearly, without question a tradable commodity. Then it becomes a valuation process for his worth, is the worth likely to go up or down, when to pull the trigger.

In this case, I think it comes down to what they think they are getting back in McCreery, which apparently the scouts like. I can't say that there is an obvious likelihood that the Braves would get anything better at any point. The question then becomes is the possibility of McCreery better than the innings Chancin could provide?
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And does clearing those innings benefit you in the long run because they can now be used to take a look at other Pitchers who either...

1.) Might actually BE a part of the future, or...

2.) Allow you to "showcase" someone you might package for a better return.
 
I think Chacin was due to implode at some point. Enjoyed watching him pitch but there is a reason we picked him up off the street for scraps. I think Coppy felt it was a safer gamble to trade his short term value build up than expect him to keep pitching solidly until the deadline.
 
getting this guy out of the way for the youth movement is what this is all about. sure, they could have kept him and hoped to have gotten a little more, but then he'd also be pitching when the braves could be throwing out farm system grads to see what they have. the braves aren't winning anyway so they might as well get going forward.
 
Chacin 7 innings, 5 hit, 2 R on 90 pitches tonight for Angels and in line for the win. He's a good pitcher and Angels will likely get a good return for him at the deadline. Shoot, Philly got a remarkable return for Hernandez so y'all acting like Chacin who's just 28 is nothing make no sense to me.

Edit: Chacin left with a 6-2 lead after 7, his bullpen blew the very next inning costing him a win. He must be thinking, I saw this crap in Atlanta and now it follows me here. Then again I don't think we ever gave him a four run lead. :)
 
Braves1976 said:
Chacin 7 innings, 5 hit, 2 R on 90 pitches tonight for Angels and in line for the win. He's a good pitcher and Angels will likely get a good return for him at the deadline. Shoot, Philly got a remarkable return for Hernandez so y'all acting like Chacin who's just 28 is nothing make no sense to me.

Edit: Chacin left with a 6-2 lead after 7, his bullpen blew the very next inning costing him a win. He must be thinking, I saw this crap in Atlanta and now it follows me here. Then again I don't think we ever gave him a four run lead. :)
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Another nice start for Chacin. Watched a bit of this and he looked sharp. He has a Game Score of 50 or more in 4 of his 7 starts. Teheran is the only pitcher on our staff with 5 over 50, and that was with 8 starts.
 
Heyward said:
Yeah like we did KJ and Uribe.
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You keep saying that but the return for KJ and Uribe isn't even comparable. Gant and Whalen were at least prospects at the time, this lefty Adam McCreery isn't on anyones list and couldn't even K a batter in a recent low A-ball outing. He is also old for his league and no better than the type you see picked up for free on waivers regularly (actually he's worse but point made). Which we are not even making use of well for a team that gets first shot at claims IMO.
 
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