DH Coming to the NL?

DirkPiggler said:
No, that shouldn't be the end result.

NL teams face a greater disadvantage by playing against AL teams with a DH. AL teams carry a DH full time. NL teams end up using bench players who usually aren't up to par offensively with the AL DH on the other side.

The rule needs to be standardized full time. As a traditionalist I'd prefer to see the DH go away. As a realist, given the power of the MLBPA and the fact that every other level of baseball allows the DH, I suspect that the DH will soon be implemented league-wide.
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You are correct that the DH gives the AL a distinct advantage over the NL. Not only do AL teams carry one more starting caliber hitter on their rosters, the presence of the DH also allows them to sign aging players and have the option of moving them to DH as they age. NL teams don't have that option, so they tend to not sign the aging sluggers that are a liability on defense.

This advantage slowly brings more talent to the AL, and has been bared out by the AL's dominance in interleague play.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
No I think you misunderstand. Two NL teams there is no need for a DH. Why use it? And as far as that disadvantage it is mostly overblown. People act like an AL team has never clinched a WS in the NL park and vice versa. It needs to be the same is the weakest possible argument. I may give up on baseball if fully implemented be cause I have no interest in 4 hour slugfests.
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Sorry to interject facts into the discussion, but the DH has very little impact on game length.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/is-the-dh-rule-bane-of-baseball-purists-slowing-the-game-down/
 
VirginiaBrave said:
You want a fact here's one. The NL is fine w/o the DH. I will concede go ahead and use it in any game with an AL team. Leave the NL as is.
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I hate the DH too. But I'm a realist. The players association will never allow the DH to go away in the AL. And because of the reasons given by Enscheff above, that gives the AL an advantage over the NL. It's not an insurmountable advantage but an advantage none the less. When there was no interleague play, it was less of a concern because you didn't meet an AL team until the WS and then the DH was split between parks. Now, because of interleague play it has a more pronounced effect on NL teams and it shows in the record.

I liked the game fine with no DH in either league, no interleague play, no BS All Star game home field effect, etc. But the game is never going back to that and I've come to accept that.
 
Carp said:
This would be the worst decision ever. The DH is an abomination and should be outlawed.
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I don't like the DH either. I wish it had never happened at the MLB LEVEL. Having said that The National League is about the only league anywhere at any level that doesn't use it. The minors use it, High schools use it, American Legion uses it, Little League even uses it. Kids grow up with it.

I get that in youth leagues you like it because it gets one more kid into the game.

Even with my personal dislike of it, I think it is time. It is so much a part of the game at every level that not having it is the anomaly. The NL fought hard to keep it out for a long time, but the time has come. :facepalm:
 
VirginiaBrave said:
You want a fact here's one. The NL is fine w/o the DH. I will concede go ahead and use it in any game with an AL team. Leave the NL as is.
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I think you need to research the word "fact".

You want a fact, here's one: that was your opinion. Opinions are not equivalent to facts, and neither are incorrect facts like you tried to use to support your claim earlier.

The FACTS are:

1. The DH doesn't increase the length of games.

2. The DH gives the AL a measurable advantage.

Just because you don't like the DH doesn't change any of those facts. That's why they are facts.
 
Enscheff said:
I think you need to research the word "fact".

You want a fact, here's one: that was your opinion. Opinions are not equivalent to facts, and neither are incorrect facts like you tried to use to support your claim earlier.

The FACTS are:

1. The DH doesn't increase the length of games.

2. The DH gives the AL a measurable advantage.

Just because you don't like the DH doesn't change any of those facts. That's why they are facts.
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You sir are too enamored with facts. The DH has no barring on a game between two NL teams (That's a fact) and for the sake of the game and tradition it should stay that way (That's an opinion)
 
VirginiaBrave said:
You sir are too enamored with facts. The DH has no barring on a game between two NL teams (That's a fact) and for the sake of the game and tradition it should stay that way (That's an opinion)
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Yeah, we definitely shouldn't base decisions on something as meaningless as facts. Keeping things status quo in the name of tradition has always been a bulletproof argument over the course of history.

(Both of those statements were sarcasm)
 
Enscheff said:
Yeah, we definitely shouldn't base decisions on something as meaningless as facts. Keeping things status quo in the name of tradition has always been a bulletproof argument over the course of history.

(Both of those statements were sarcasm)
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As an aside, I wonder how many of these threads end with Enscheff as the last poster, others tired of arguing, him needing to have the last word?

I need to introduce you to my ex-wife. You two would be incredible together. Gunplay might be involved.
 
having a DH in one league and not the other and then having those two leagues play each other is Dumb. Both sides face a disadvantage when playing in opposing parks... The AL has a slightly less disadvantage however.

as Dirk said, I would prefer it gone.. but that is not going to happen. Just install the DH for the NL and let the 'traditionalist' start the adjustment period. I would recommend giving a full year notice so teams can build for it. So if it gets introduced in this off season's CBA, then don't install it until the 2018 season.

we can keep avoiding the issue, but we are just kicking the can down the road. It would be like the NFC and AFC having only one league that uses a punter. Just dump to have two sets of rules.
 
I can't wait for the DH in the NL, I think it just makes a better product.

If the sport of baseball was just now invented and you hadn't grown up with seeing pitchers hit; I don't think you'd be enthralled with the idea of seeing Matt Wisler and Aaron Blair come to bat.
 
Part of me doesn't like pitchers batting because it's almost always an out. But another side of me doesn't like a guy's only job being to walk out of the dugout to the plate four times a game and not participating in the other aspects of the game of baseball.
 
Preacher said:
I can't wait for the DH in the NL, I think it just makes a better product.

If the sport of baseball was just now invented and you hadn't grown up with seeing pitchers hit; I don't think you'd be enthralled with the idea of seeing Matt Wisler and Aaron Blair come to bat.
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But if the game was just invented, the idea of a DH wouldn't make any sense. 'We will have all players who play defense also bat...except one of them. So in his place, we will put someone who doesn't play defense.' That doesn't make logical sense. It's actually because baseball was not just recently invented and we've had time to see pitchers stop working on hitting in any way and devolve into complete garbage with the bat that we've decided we'd rather invent a new illogical rule to avoid having them hit.

Imagine if 1B around the league started spending all their time in the cage because that is what they are primarily there for; if 1B defense devolved into an embarrassment around the league as a result, would we be in favor of a designated fielder for 1B? It's the exact same concept, though I admit an individual pitcher's bat has less impact on a team than a 1B's defense. But to me the response should be, start spending more time on defense if you want to stop being bad at it.

I don't like the DH, but I've accepted its inevitability.
 
smootness said:
But if the game was just invented, the idea of a DH wouldn't make any sense. 'We will have all players who play defense also bat...except one of them. So in his place, we will put someone who doesn't play defense.' That doesn't make logical sense. It's actually because baseball was not just recently invented and we've had time to see pitchers stop working on hitting in any way and devolve into complete garbage with the bat that we've decided we'd rather invent a new illogical rule to avoid having them hit.

Imagine if 1B around the league started spending all their time in the cage because that is what they are primarily there for; if 1B devolved into garbage around the league as a result, would we be in favor of a designated fielder for 1B? It's the exact same concept, though I admit an individual pitcher's bat has less impact on a team than a 1B's defense. But to me the response should be, start spending more time on defense if you want to stop being bad at it.

I don't like the DH, but I've accepted its inevitability.
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But as you've said pitchers aren't going to start getting better at hitting, its not going to happen.

Eventually the NFL said these XPs are pointless, we are moving the kick back so that something might actually happen. That's also true in baseball, people are tired of seeing (mostly) useless hitters get up there and flail around. Its not good for the sport and as many have noted having two leagues with different rules is silly if there's interleague play.
 
yeezus said:
Part of me doesn't like pitchers batting because it's almost always an out. But another side of me doesn't like a guy's only job being to walk out of the dugout to the plate four times a game and not participating in the other aspects of the game of baseball.
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The game evolves. You have pitchers now who's only job is to come in an get a left handed batter out. You have defensive replacements who are the opposite of your DH who can't hit and only play defense in the 9th inning.
 
thewupk said:
The game evolves. You have pitchers now who's only job is to come in an get a left handed batter out. You have defensive replacements who are the opposite of your DH who can't hit and only play defense in the 9th inning.
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Yeah, those are fair points. I don't think those things impact the game as much as a DH does, so there's something to be discussed there. But the game has shifted (literally).
 
thewupk said:
The game evolves. You have pitchers now who's only job is to come in an get a left handed batter out. You have defensive replacements who are the opposite of your DH who can't hit and only play defense in the 9th inning.
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you stole my point. I was going to say that yeezus must not like BP specialization then.
 
Preacher said:
But as you've said pitchers aren't going to start getting better at hitting, its not going to happen.

Eventually the NFL said these XPs are pointless, we are moving the kick back so that something might actually happen. That's also true in baseball, people are tired of seeing (mostly) useless hitters get up there and flail around. Its not good for the sport and as many have noted having two leagues with different rules is silly if there's interleague play.
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I still don't like the idea of players dictating rule changes simply because they stopped paying attention to an area of the game. I get it for practical purposes, but I don't like it. That's all I'm saying.

I just can't really think of an example in another sport where one of the basic rules of the sport was changed in such a drastic way. Moving an XP back isn't close to the same thing. Maybe the allowance of the forward pass? Or the slam dunk? But those were inevitable progressions, where the DH is essentially a regression.
 
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