The Trump Presidency

Krgrecw said:
I don't think you can fix it. The system is so big you can only hope it works.
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You may well be right but since the future of this country absolutely depends on education don't we have to try? The problem is people either want to go with a Washington run bureaucratic clusterpfark system that doesn't work or a private sector run clusterpfark system that also doesn't work. I get home schooled kids from time to time. Last semester I had a fairly small Western Civilization Since 1700 class (about 1/2 were home schooled and about 1/2 were public school grads) and we were talking about the French revolution and I referenced the American Revolution and I asked "and what year did we declare our independence here in the US" and the looks I got straight across the board were just like John Cleese's character in the witch burning scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. It's no wonder most of my hair is gray to white and so little of it is still black.
 
Hawk said:
I'm OK with vouchers provided the government responsibility which is removed in the public to private transfer is then correspondingly re-appropriated to a oversight of the for-profit enterprises (be that via educational standards, tuition caps, or selective diversity measures). I don't see school choice as a 'decimation' of publicly-funded education, but more as a kind of reformulation.
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What rules would you advocate for numbers, enrollment, etc.? Here's why vouchers won't work. It isn't that they're necessarily a bad idea, but little Johnny's mom and dad are busy and they don't have time or patience or willingness to put up with their little angel getting punished for trying to burn down the gymnasium or for getting an F in Math because he was texting in class (or sleeping) instead of paying attention so they "school shop" in the same way that Michael Jackson doctor shopped. They keep moving their little angel around from school to school, always blaming those at the last school for his failures instead of blaming him and let's face it school administrators have to plan how many students they're going to have, how many teachers they're going to need and if students are bouncing around like ping pong balls in a lottery barrel thingy how can they know what to expect? Oh and did I mention that most of the superintendents I've known over the years weren't all that bright to begin with? Sure there are exceptions but that mandatory lobotomy they have to get so that they believe every BS story parents hit them with so that they overrule any real punishment little Johnny ever actually gets causes them to not be very good at math anymore.
 
My dad was a 4th grade teacher and wasn't allowed to fail students who couldn't achieve 50% scores... He always blamed no child left behind (but proudly voted for Bush, Mccain, Romney, and trump)
 
sturg33 said:
My dad was a 4th grade teacher and wasn't allowed to fail students who couldn't achieve 50% scores... He always blamed no child left behind (but proudly voted for Bush, Mccain, Romney, and trump)
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Would you believe that in parts of Arkansas (maybe all, I"m just not positive) students cannot be given a grade lower than a C.
 
Oklahomahawk said:
Would you believe that in parts of Arkansas (maybe all, I"m just not positive) students cannot be given a grade lower than a C.
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Sadly, I would.

And that's why we have a society today that cries every time they don't get their way...

We're being raised to be unaccountable little losers. The left is certainly winning
 
sturg33 said:
Sadly, I would.

And that's why we have a society today that cries every time they don't get their way...

We're being raised to be unaccountable little losers. The left is certainly winning
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So who do we blame for those sorts of "participation trophy Cs"? I have no doubt the p*ssy teacher's union went along with it, but I can guarantee you it wasn't their idea to begin with. Parents don't want their kids to learn responsibility and discipline, it hurts!! Administrators don't want to have angry parents so they'd offer them As if it meant keeping their 6 figure salaries. Teachers, even though I don't always agree with them really are caught in the middle. Oh and while the left does look and sound like what you're describing what about the right? Try telling anyone in the current administration or those who control Congress anything they don't want to hear and let the crybaby bitching begin.
 
Oklahomahawk said:
So who do we blame for those sorts of "participation trophy Cs"? I have no doubt the p*ssy teacher's union went along with it, but I can guarantee you it wasn't their idea to begin with. Parents don't want their kids to learn responsibility and discipline, it hurts!! Administrators don't want to have angry parents so they'd offer them As if it meant keeping their 6 figure salaries. Teachers, even though I don't always agree with them really are caught in the middle. Oh and while the left does look and sound like what you're describing what about the right? Try telling anyone in the current administration or those who control Congress anything they don't want to hear and let the crybaby bitching begin.
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We blame the baby boomers, who have decided that their kids deserve everything and they are uniquely special.

I cringe when I hear a rich parent say "I want to give my kid everything I didn't have growing up." I just want to scream at them that the reason they are successful is because they had to scratch and claw and work for what they have. My parents gave me nothing as a kid. I worked two jobs starting at 15, I paid for my car and my college while playing 3 sports. Now I make good money and I APPRECIATE that they forced me to learn a work ethic.

Our society is so soft now. We can't offend anyone anymore. And that means we can't fail them in school. Use red ink to grade papers. We have to give them safe spaces when they don't get their way and give them play-dough to play with when the Republicans when an election.

I recently read a story that a 10 year old basketball league in florida gives the kids 1 point for hitting the rim... that'll teach to try to learn to make it in the basket!
 
sturg33 said:
We blame the baby boomers, who have decided that their kids deserve everything and they are uniquely special.

I cringe when I hear a rich parent say "I want to give my kid everything I didn't have growing up." I just want to scream at them that the reason they are successful is because they had to scratch and claw and work for what they have. My parents gave me nothing as a kid. I worked two jobs starting at 15, I paid for my car and my college while playing 3 sports. Now I make good money and I APPRECIATE that they forced me to learn a work ethic.

Our society is so soft now. We can't offend anyone anymore. And that means we can't fail them in school. Use red ink to grade papers. We have to give them safe spaces when they don't get their way and give them play-dough to play with when the Republicans when an election.

I recently read a story that a 10 year old basketball league in florida gives the kids 1 point for hitting the rim... that'll teach to try to make it in the basket!
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Whole lotta truth here. Sure we should give our kids a lot, but we can give them too much, just like we can give them too little. One day maybe all that will balance out. Oh and I should have played basketball in Florida when I was in HS then. I could usually hit the rim. lol
 
Oklahomahawk said:
What rules would you advocate for numbers, enrollment, etc.? Here's why vouchers won't work. It isn't that they're necessarily a bad idea, but little Johnny's mom and dad are busy and they don't have time or patience or willingness to put up with their little angel getting punished for trying to burn down the gymnasium or for getting an F in Math because he was texting in class (or sleeping) instead of paying attention so they "school shop" in the same way that Michael Jackson doctor shopped. They keep moving their little angel around from school to school, always blaming those at the last school for his failures instead of blaming him and let's face it school administrators have to plan how many students they're going to have, how many teachers they're going to need and if students are bouncing around like ping pong balls in a lottery barrel thingy how can they know what to expect? Oh and did I mention that most of the superintendents I've known over the years weren't all that bright to begin with? Sure there are exceptions but that mandatory lobotomy they have to get so that they believe every BS story parents hit them with so that they overrule any real punishment little Johnny ever actually gets causes them to not be very good at math anymore.
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To me it's all about good jobs for the middle class whicheck facilitates a single income household. That's the key to fixing all of this.
 
Hawk said:
I'm OK with vouchers provided the government responsibility which is removed in the public to private transfer is then correspondingly re-appropriated to a oversight of the for-profit enterprises (be that via educational standards, tuition caps, or selective diversity measures). I don't see school choice as a 'decimation' of publicly-funded education, but more as a kind of reformulation.
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I didn't say that vouchers, on their own, constituted "'decimation' of publicly-funded education"; and I actually think, moreover, that vouchers—"provided", as you suggest, that "the government responsibility which is removed in the public to private transfer is then correspondingly re-appropriated to a oversight of the for-profit enterprises"—are not a horrible idea. They wouldn't be the first improvement I'd suggest, but I actually think vouchers that allow parents to send their children to existing private schools, with some sort of organ of oversight like you suggest, make a hell-of-a-lot more sense than the sort of direct pubic-subsidy apparatus that constitutes charter schools (all the rage amongst establishment liberals like Cory Booker, all-too-often partial to total disasters).
 
sturg33 said:
We're being raised to be unaccountable little losers. The left is certainly winning
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If it's fair to say that the sort of robust social-supports that leftists want constitute "unaccountability", then it is equally fair to say that the sort of liberty that libertarians want constitutes savagery. But if you feel I've misrepresented your goals, then you've misrepresented mine.
 
jpx7 said:
If it's fair to say that the sort of robust social-supports that leftists want constitute "unaccountability", then it is equally fair to say that the sort of liberty that libertarians want constitutes savagery. But if you feel I've misrepresented your goals, then you've misrepresented mine.
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I'd be curious in a discussion on this one. Can you give me examples of modern day legist behavior that promotes accountability? We can start there
 
thethe said:
Please explain why.
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"this was your choice of a question. there goes that relationship"

it speaks to high level of disgust of people having some people question you

even if he was joking here

we know the truth from Bannons comments to the leaks of how upset he gets over anything
 
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Today, on Holocaust Remembrance Day, President Trump is expected to sign an anti-Muslim, anti-refugee executive order.

On this day, we remember the story of the S.S. St. Louis, a ship full of Jewish refugees who were turned away from the United States out of fear.

When we say never again we mean it for everyone.
 
sturg33 said:
I'd be curious in a discussion on this one. Can you give me examples of modern day legist behavior that promotes accountability? We can start there
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Here's a hypothetical one: Single-payer health-care would make society accountable for the health of all of its citizens, even the most economically marginalized and monetarily-blocked from access. Here's a historical one, from the most recent half-century: the VRA made the voting-apparatus more accountable to those citizens who, if not de jure, were de facto denied franchise, simply on the basis of color or creed. Or one more, still in operation: regulatory bodies like the FDA hold companies accountable to the health and safety of the consumer, as opposed to simply their bottom-lines and shareholders. How modern are we talking? The WPA made the federal government accountable to the joblessness and destitution of its constituents.

But you think of accountability as solely a virtue participated in and expressed by the individual, just as I see personal liberty without economic safety to be a special kind of savagery. That's why and where we differ ideologically. But I don't accuse you of advocating savagery, even if I think that's the windfall of your preference for a certain species of liberty; I likewise think it's disingenuous to propose that the left's goal is less individual accountability, even if you think that's a repercussion of greater societal accountability.
 
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