The Trump Presidency

[jpx7]

Donna Brazile fed a debate question to HRCs campaign which proves that America is hypocritical and no better than a banana republic, says the guy who has systematically eradicated the free press and prosecuted or eliminated his political oppposition while stealing billions of dollars from the state.

Super argument.

I take your point, but I also think it's indicative of how broken the country's nominally-left party is that Brazile—with a track-record of essentially only working for failed campaigns, and otherwise working as an establishment shill on cable news—is nonetheless consistently given more authority and influence. Yes, there's a false equivalence being drawn between her mendacity and influence-peddling (and the general corruption of the two major political parties) and the near-dictatorial, hard-corrupt oligarchy Vladimir Putin has constructed; but I don't think we should use that false equivalency to dismiss the very real metastasis of soft-corruption at play here at home amongst both major parties. Not saying that's what you're doing, but this order-of-magnitude argument has frequently been used by liberal establishment responders to wave off any and all criticism of their current institutional set-up.

 

[Hawk]

Can you hook me up with a visa? Wanting to do the Trans-Siberian sometime in the next few summers.

Ugh, this.

Getting a Russian visa is a royal pain in the ass. And it's expensive.

At least once you fork over for a Chinese visa it's good for 10 years.

 

[jpx7]

At least once you fork over for a Chinese visa it's good for 10 years.

Not always. I applied last year, before my Shanghai–Myanmar–Kunming trip, for a ten-year; I applied at the same time/embassy, and with the same itinerary, as the friend who'd be traveling with me that trip, and he neglected to write in "ten-year visa" on the form (there's no pre-typed choice, as of Spring 2016: you have to write-in the ten-year). So I ended up dishing out $140 for a one-year, and then not being able to squeeze out time for a second sino-expedition before it expired—and without even receiving clarification as to why they denied me a ten-year in favor of an annual.

 

[Julio3000]

I take your point, but I also think it's indicative of how broken the country's nominally-left party is that Brazile—with a track-record of essentially only working for failed campaigns, and otherwise working as an establishment shill on cable news—is nonetheless consistently given more authority and influence. Yes, there's a false equivalence being drawn between her mendacity and influence-peddling (and the general corruption of the two major political parties) and the near-dictatorial, hard-corrupt oligarchy Vladimir Putin has constructed; but I don't think we should use that false equivalency to dismiss the very real metastasis of soft-corruption at play here at home amongst both major parties. Not saying that's what you're doing, but this order-of-magnitude argument has frequently been used by liberal establishment responders to wave off any and all criticism of their current institutional set-up.

Nah, you're right about the party and where it is, institutionally. And the tendency to use Russian shenanigans as a get-out-of-jail-free card for the failings of the system is, yeah, a real and regrettable thing.

That's not the vibe I'm getting from sturg, exactly.

 

[Julio3000]

The sanctions were so effective that they took over our election process, and you're response to... sanction them?

You may want to read a little about it before opining.

I think the only natural next step is some sort of war... which, I'm just guessing here, is something a lot of people in the congress would welcome

I strongly disagree. Coincidentally, yours is also commonly-expressed sentiment in pro-Russian propaganda. One doesn't have to be Ol' John McCain. One can support historic western institutions and oppose Russian screwing around in Europe without desiring WWIII.

You keep glancing over the content. You can't have it both ways. If they successfully undermined our election, then the information they exposed must be really really bad. But you're not interested in that information. That's no better than blaming Snowden for the US breaking the law and spying on millions of Americans.

Actually, my point of view is that the success or failure of the effort is largely irrelevant. The import of it exists independent of the result. That Russia's favored candidate won the election does not mean that the victory owes itself to Russian influence. If HRC had won the election, the essential facts would be exactly the same.

If your house was broken into and your stuff was stolen, you'd want the police to investigate, I assume. If your house was broken into and nothing was stolen, you'd still want the police to investigate, right?

I'm certain you're aware of the US involvement in other elections. What's confusing to me is why we're cool with that, but cry foul when someone does it back. (now feel free to post how you're not cool with it, but don't think it's relevant to your current hissy fit

Maybe you could give me some specifics and we could discuss it.

This is what I'm getting from you now, though...because America has what one considers to be a legally and morally questionable drone policy, it isn't enough to oppose the policy, but one must actually be sanguine about other countries zapping Americans on our soil.

As for Russian criticism of American hypocrisy, sure, in some cases it's very much on point. I assume you're equally quick to point out the justice in the criticism of American hypocrisy when it's Chavez or Maduro or Morales or Khamenei, right?

 

[Julio3000]

You know what tinfoil hats are actually made of? Aluminum.

You know what else is made of aluminum? Pots.

What do pots do? Call kettles black.

You know who else is black? Barack Obama.

Follow me down the rabbit hole.

 

[cajunrevenge]

So let me get this straight, Comey, the guy "the left" says illegally influenced the election and whose announcement they claim won the election for Trump is now investigating Russia for illegally influencing the election? Is he a hero for the left again? I cant keep up. If Assange at some point releases damaging info on Trump will he be a hero of the left again too?

 

[Hawk]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/roger-stone-fbi-investigation-236299

Roger Stone: I haven’t talked to the FBI

 

[Julio3000]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/roger-stone-fbi-investigation-236299

Roger Stone: I haven’t talked to the FBI

For all that he's denigrating the intelligence agencies, he certainly lives by the old CIA maxim "Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter-accisations."

 

[goldfly]

Trump's America

Spring breakers chant 'Build that wall!' during Cancun cruise

A Mexican newspaper condemned American spring breakers who reportedly chanted "Build that wall!" during a family show on a tourist ship off Cancun.

In an editorial Friday, the Yucatan Times called the singing during a "Pirate Ship" attraction an act of "xenophobia and discrimination against Mexicans within their own country." The newspaper added that the "racist hymn" wasn't an isolated incident and that numerous complaints about spring breakers have been lodged by Mexican tourist industry workers.

The paper referred to a social media post by Anaximandro Amable, a Peruvian who was aboard the ship:

"Today I was with Suly, my wife (who is a native of Mexico), watching an entertainment show off the coast of Cancun aboard a boat, and at the end of the show, a flock of Americans (maybe under the influence of alcohol, or maybe not), began to sing the infamous 'Build that wall' chant louder and louder'."
Mexican tourists aboard the ship reportedly complained about the singing, but the spring breakers did not stop.

 

[goldfly]

i can't keep up with when we were supposed to take it serious or not

 

[thethe]

It's Mexico's fault. If they didn't do such a crappy job if running their country we wouldn't need a wall.

 

[goldfly]

It's Mexico's fault. If they didn't do such a crappy job if running their country we wouldn't need a wall.

that's a new dumb spin

is it their fault that god put them on the border of the greatest nation ever?

i still don't get why god put our oil under the nations in the middle east but that's a different topic

 

[thethe]

that's a new dumb spin

is it their fault that god put them on the border of the greatest nation ever?

i still don't get why god put our oil under the nations in the middle east but that's a different topic

So it's not Mexico's fault that they have little to no control over the cartels in their country? Have you been to Mexico city at all in the last 10 years? I go for work from time to time. The locals all say the same thing. We are instructed to not go put from a 5-10 block radius of the center of the town.

The politicians have their pockets lined with cash from these animals. It's willful and the people of Mexico pay for it.

It's not our fault we need a wall.

 

[57Brave]

Ever been to Gary Indiana ?

 

[goldfly]

the cartels are only around cause of us (as citizens and wanting things) and our policies

 

[thethe]

the cartels are only around cause of us (as citizens and wanting things) and our policies

You could argue the demand is what it is because the supply allows people to try and then bring more people to the table. Mexico could take a harder stance on crime but the polticians don't want to. They are all on the cartels payroll.

 

[goldfly]

You could argue the demand is what it is because the supply allows people to try

no

you really can't

i should say, if you want to be taken serious

you can't

 

[thethe]

no

you really can't

i should say, if you want to be taken serious

you can't

Yes I know. It can't possibly be Mexicos fault. It's all evil americas.

 

[50PoundHead]

Tough day to be a Trump apologist huh Hawk ?

#snowflake
..............

kidding aside, the problem to be clear isn't that Russia tried to influence our election -- I think it naive to believe this is the first time.
The question is did they conspire with Americans to influence an election.
I think in sport it is called "tampering"

It is very possible Trump was in the dark about what his underlings were doing on his behalf.
Unless of course Alexander Butterfield exposes the tapes.

Unless you lived through both it is hard to explain how these events are eerily similar

The thing that is most eerily similar is Roger Stone is/was in the peanut gallery for both.

Hawk, don't you think we should at least investigate the extent of the Russian hacks? I doubt very much Russian activity tilted the election that much unless they wrote the Hillary speech in which she said she wanted to put all the coal miners out of work. If there was any collusion--and it would be a very big and qualified "if"--it was clumsily done, and like I said earlier, likely had no effect on the outcome. But if Russia is dinking around in our election process at any level, I think it would be nice to know. It's my guess that the only reason the Trump campaign has been fingered in this is that the FBI was following the Russians and somehow Trump inadvertently tripped onto the scene (probably through the Manafort connection).