Braves Acquire Matt Adams From Cardinals

thewupk said:
The bigger question is how many holes do you have to fill at the MLB level with a farm system that is pitching heavy compared to one that is position player heavy.
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I don't really see many holes at the MILB level do you?

I mean I get saying we are pitching heavy, but that doesn't also mean we don't have enough position player prospects.

So, My question still stands. Which is the better FA investment? Position players or Pitchers?
 
Tapate50 said:

I don't really see many holes at the MILB level do you?

I mean I get saying we are pitching heavy, but that doesn't also mean we don't have enough position player prospects.

So, My question still stands. Which is the better FA investment? Position players or Pitchers?
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Not even close. I'd always rather spend big money on a hitter
 
Tapate50 said:

I don't really see many holes at the MILB level do you?

I mean I get saying we are pitching heavy, but that doesn't also mean we don't have enough position player prospects.

So, My question still stands. Which is the better FA investment? Position players or Pitchers?
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At the MLB level the Braves currently have CF, 1B, and SS figured out long term. That's a lot of holes for our farm to fill with cheap players.

As for your question. the better FA investment is obviously position players. Just as it's better to be position player heavy in the minors. All the same reasons apply. Either way you ideally want to fill your MLB roster with ~4 year FA deals on good but not top shelf players.
 
You only need one 1B, you only need 1 SS, you need 12 pitchers. We don't have to field an all star at every position. We already have an MVP candidate. We should aim to be a well balanced team. Aces with **** offense is a bad playoff recipe and **** pitching with a great offense is a bad playoff recipe.
 
thewupk said:
At the MLB level the Braves currently have CF, 1B, and SS figured out long term. That's a lot of holes for our farm to fill with cheap players.

As for your question. the better FA investment is obviously position players. Just as it's better to be position player heavy in the minors. All the same reasons apply. Either way you ideally want to fill your MLB roster with ~4 year FA deals on good but not top shelf players.
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We weren't talking about the MLB level. We were talking about real prospects for MLB holes.

I see 2b pretty solidly wrapped up, and one of 2-3 guys being fine at 3B. So basically the whole IF....

LF we have Kemp, and RF DP in the short term and Acuna in the "long" term.
 
cajunrevenge said:
You only need one 1B, you only need 1 SS, you need 20+ pitchers. We don't have to field an all star at every position. We already have an MVP candidate. We should aim to be a well balanced team. Aces with **** offense is a bad playoff recipe and **** pitching with a great offense is a bad playoff recipe.
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Fixed.
 
Tapate50 said:
We weren't talking about the MLB level. We were talking about real prospects for MLB holes.

I see 2b pretty solidly wrapped up, and one of 2-3 guys being fine at 3B. So basically the whole IF....

LF we have Kemp, and RF DP in the short term and Acuna in the "long" term.
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Not everyone of those players will work out. Just like all of our pitchers won't work out.

For minor leaguers pitchers have a much higher bust rate than position players. If you are a position heavy farm then you are going to produce more cheap players to fill out your team. More spots filled equals less holes you have to fill via trade and FA.
 
thewupk said:
Not everyone of those players will work out. Just like all of our pitchers won't work out.

For minor leaguers pitchers have a much higher bust rate than position players. If you are a position heavy farm then you are going to produce more cheap players to fill out your team. More spots filled equals less holes you have to fill via trade and FA.
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Pitching prospects have a higher bust rate, but it's not much higher. We were able to get a lot of pitching back in trades in part because teams were more willing to part with it, not just because we sought it out. So had we tried to add bats instead, there likely would have been fewer of them, and less talented.

We have good depth throughout the system, not just on the pitching side. Most farm systems would kill to have a group like Dansby, Albies, Acuna, and Maitan, not to mention the lesser guys like Demeritte, Riley, Jackson, Peterson, etc.
 
thewupk said:
Not everyone of those players will work out. Just like all of our pitchers won't work out.

For minor leaguers pitchers have a much higher bust rate than position players. If you are a position heavy farm then you are going to produce more cheap players to fill out your team. More spots filled equals less holes you have to fill via trade and FA.
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Sure, but odds are pretty good we aren't devoid of enough position players to be very competitive.

And this part of your post makes no sense seeing as though you'd need WAY more pitchers to fill that side of the team than position players.

So brining this back to real life for a second, we ought to have pretty close to enough position players to fill our MLB roster. That's the pretty safe assumption correct?

Even if we want to pay a heavy hitter for LF, that's a more market efficient way of doing so than paying a starter on the market right?

Also- having an excess of pitching is a good problem to have. I'd rather use the pitchers while they are young and cheap then trade them for add'l assets as they age (become more expensive) or become an injury risk .
 
thewupk said:
Not everyone of those players will work out. Just like all of our pitchers won't work out.

For minor leaguers pitchers have a much higher bust rate than position players. If you are a position heavy farm then you are going to produce more cheap players to fill out your team. More spots filled equals less holes you have to fill via trade and FA.
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But you are almost certainly going to be forced to spend a premium on free agent pitching or acquisition by trade that probably is not as cost efficient as filling position holes.

Reality is you need a balanced system. Your organization needs to produce 5-6 all stars per generation one way or the other.
 
smootness said:
Pitching prospects have a higher bust rate, but it's not much higher. We were able to get a lot of pitching back in trades in part because teams were more willing to part with it, not just because we sought it out. So had we tried to add bats instead, there likely would have been fewer of them, and less talented.

We have good depth throughout the system, not just on the pitching side. Most farm systems would kill to have a group like Dansby, Albies, Acuna, and Maitan, not to mention the lesser guys like Demeritte, Riley, Jackson, Peterson, etc.
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The Braves have a quality farm system. I would like to more than good Acuna as far as OF prospects. I would also like to have a quality 3B prospect that's not 16 years old.
 
smootness said:
Pitching prospects have a higher bust rate, but it's not much higher. We were able to get a lot of pitching back in trades in part because teams were more willing to part with it, not just because we sought it out. So had we tried to add bats instead, there likely would have been fewer of them, and less talented.

We have good depth throughout the system, not just on the pitching side. Most farm systems would kill to have a group like Dansby, Albies, Acuna, and Maitan, not to mention the lesser guys like Demeritte, Riley, Jackson, Peterson, etc.
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I think that's pretty accurate. The Braves could only acquire the players that other teams offered and it is clear that premium hitting prospects are valued fairly highly at the moment.

two years also isn't really that long a time period for rebuilding a minor league system and seeing it flower.

The returns on what they've done already probably won't be felt in their entirety for five years. It's something they will have to keep working on. That's why I am hopeful they will continue to trade short term assets this season.
 
Southcack77 said:
But you are almost certainly going to be forced to spend a premium on free agent pitching or acquisition by trade that probably is not as cost efficient as filling position holes.

Reality is you need a balanced system. Your organization needs to produce 5-6 all stars per generation one way or the other.
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It depends on the type of FA pitcher you target. If you are going after Sale or another TOR guy then yes you will spend a premium. The same would be said if you target a middle of the order 5+ WAR hitter too.

The Braves of the 90's were a position player farm heavy system. They produced quality position player after position player. They idea that they were a pitching factory because of 3 HOF pitchers (only 1 which the Braves drafted) is just false.

The more positions you can fill on your team with home grown players the better you will be. The way to do that is be position player heavy.
 
thewupk said:
The Braves have a quality farm system. I would like to more than good Acuna as far as OF prospects. I would also like to have a quality 3B prospect that's not 16 years old.
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I'm sure the Braves would love one too, but there is only so much you can do to completely turn over an organization.

In a short period of time though, they traded for Ruiz, drafted Riley, signed Maitan, traded for Demeritte, and by their accounts probably would have drafted Senzel at #3 if he'd been available. And they signed Sean Rodriguez as a FA. I'm guessing that 3B remains on to do list at MLB and minor league level.

Everyone who wants to crap on the front office sort of points at the SP philosophy, but look at it this way. The Braves had one potential starting pitcher in their entire system and he'd been disappointing and may still not make it. That was a pretty existential need anyway you want to look at it.

There are only so many things that can be addressed in a short time.
 
Tapate50 said:
Sure, but odds are pretty good we aren't devoid of enough position players to be very competitive.

And this part of your post makes no sense seeing as though you'd need WAY more pitchers to fill that side of the team than position players.

So brining this back to real life for a second, we ought to have pretty close to enough position players to fill our MLB roster. That's the pretty safe assumption correct?

Even if we want to pay a heavy hitter for LF, that's a more market efficient way of doing so than paying a starter on the market right?

Also- having an excess of pitching is a good problem to have. I'd rather use the pitchers while they are young and cheap then trade them for add'l assets as they age (become more expensive) or become an injury risk .
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Do we have enough position player prospects to fill our MLB roster? You tell me. We have Albies who hopefully be ready for an everyday role next year. Acuna the year after? That takes care of 2B and presumably right. Who do we have for left the year after that? Who do we have for 3rd? Catcher? This is also assuming Albies and Acuna hit the ground running and not the usual growing pains that young players can experience which is no guarantee.

Is paying mashing LF for market efficient than going after a starter? Usually the LF mashers that you can get for cheap are also horrible defensively. I wouldn't really consider that a market efficient because there is a reason that teams aren't paying those types of mashers big bucks anymore. They aren't worth it. Mark Trumbo is that type of hitter and he got 11 million a year. He's a 1-2 WAR player. You can get a 1-2 WAR starting pitcher for that price. If there is any kind of market inefficiency right now it's for defensive heavy OF's who are average hitters.
 
thewupk said:
It depends on the type of FA pitcher you target. If you are going after Sale or another TOR guy then yes you will spend a premium. The same would be said if you target a middle of the order 5+ WAR hitter too.

The Braves of the 90's were a position player farm heavy system. They produced quality position player after position player. They idea that they were a pitching factory because of 3 HOF pitchers (only 1 which the Braves drafted) is just false.

The more positions you can fill on your team with home grown players the better you will be. The way to do that is be position player heavy.
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I mostly agree with you that they had more success in producing position players and I do not think they were a pitching factory.

The biggest advantage having healthy HOF pitchers had for the Braves is that it allowed them to trade promising pitching prospects for things they needed to continue winning. Braves never had a shortage of promising prospects, which is a different thing from producing great major league talent.

The Braves seemed to understand that as they were never shy about trading them.

I think that folks are making too much about the focus on pitching. The Braves need to find two or three internal options in the rotation and you need a pool of prospects to do that. But it is not really reasonable or correct to think that the Braves do not value hitting.

Truth is, the Braves made a lot of hay off of international signings, and on finds outside the first couple of rounds. If they had the luxury of picking Chipper Jones at #1 again, I am sure they would.
 
Southcack77 said:
I'm sure the Braves would love one too, but there is only so much you can do to completely turn over an organization.

In a short period of time though, they traded for Ruiz, drafted Riley, signed Maitan, traded for Demeritte, and by their accounts probably would have drafted Senzel at #3 if he'd been available. And they signed Sean Rodriguez as a FA. I'm guessing that 3B remains on to do list at MLB and minor league level.

Everyone who wants to crap on the front office sort of points at the SP philosophy, but look at it this way. The Braves had one potential starting pitcher in their entire system and he'd been disappointing and may still not make it. That was a pretty existential need anyway you want to look at it.

There are only so many things that can be addressed in a short time.
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The Braves have a great system and I think the FO has done a good job overall. But I don't think they are perfect. And I don't agree with their idea of targeting lots of pitchers or think that we are going to have dozens of aces like some around here do.
 
thewupk said:
The Braves have a quality farm system. I would like to more than good Acuna as far as OF prospects. I would also like to have a quality 3B prospect that's not 16 years old.
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Agree with everything here. I don't see how we can get by without a quality stop gap at third unless Demeritte or Ruiz really surprise
 
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