6/14 JT vs Harper

[Enscheff]

I disagree that there is not a team that wouldn't consider starting him in a playoff series. Experienced starter with playoff experience having a decent year. Third or fourth starter? Sure.

The Braves got an actual prospect for Lucas Harrell. Let's not dismiss the chances before it happens.

Umm, I would argue Dario Alvarez was the biggest prize in that deal, not Harrell. And for Harrell/Alvarez, the Braves got TD (who is still striking out 26% of the time in AA)...a guy that is pretty much exactly what the MLBTR guy says Garcia can maybe fetch.

Nothing you just stated contradicts anything I posted earlier.

 

[JxnMissFan]

I disagree that there is not a team that wouldn't consider starting him in a playoff series. Experienced starter with playoff experience having a decent year. Third or fourth starter? Sure.

The Braves got an actual prospect for Lucas Harrell. Let's not dismiss the chances before it happens.

I hate to wish bad luck on players but if the Yankees and Astros pitchers keep going on the DL they will need a pitcher like Garcia for a few months until they get their starters back. I could see either team giving up a 8 to 12th ranked prospect for Garcia. I wonder if a package of Adams and Garcia would be interesting to either team.

 

[Enscheff]

Not faulting this logic at all, with the HUGE caveat that it really is all based on what's on the market at the time. After all the price for relievers was crazy at the deadline in years passed and I doubt the return (war) equaled what was given up...

LOL, ok. I'm not sure how many times you guys have to have your unrealistic expectations dashed before you adjust them.

Remember 2 days ago when everyone said Wright was going to sign under slot because he was a Braves fan? Remember when I said there was no chance he signed for anything other than over slot? How did that turn out?

 

[Enscheff]

I hate to wish bad luck on players but if the Yankees and Astros pitchers keep going on the DL they will need a pitcher like Garcia for a few months until they get their starters back. I could see either team giving up a 8 to 12th ranked prospect for Garcia. I wonder if a package of Adams and Garcia would be interesting to either team.

Now THAT'S the kind of thinking we need around here. A package of mediocre pieces getting a decent return is realistic. Just need a team to line up.

 

[bravesfanMatt]

Umm, I would argue Dario Alvarez was the biggest prize in that deal, not Harrell. And for Harrell/Alvarez, the Braves got TD (who is still striking out 26% of the time in AA)...a guy that is pretty much exactly what the MLBTR guy says Garcia can maybe fetch.

Nothing you just stated contradicts anything I posted earlier.

yeah, Dario K wagon was the catch of that deal and he was the biggest flop of the bunch. I think we will have to pair a BP guy with Jamie. Maybe an attractive offer to the gNats. they could use starter depth and BP help and then slot Jamie or another starter in the pen for the playoffs.

 

[goldfly]

Are you completely against it, even if we get offered a good package?

no, i'm never against trading someone if the trade is in our favor

but the push to just trade everyone all the time is absurd

and i don't think Julio is declining in abilities etc

 

[msstate7]

So the astros are playing gurriel at 1b. Never heard of him. Is he a big prospect?

Yankees could platoon Adams and carter at 1b

 

[zbhargrove]

So the astros are playing gurriel at 1b. Never heard of him. Is he a big prospect?

Yankees could platoon Adams and carter at 1b

He was an older Cuban sign last year. Had a lot of hype but a lot of uncertainty about how his game would transfer.

 

[Southcack77]

Umm, I would argue Dario Alvarez was the biggest prize in that deal, not Harrell. And for Harrell/Alvarez, the Braves got TD (who is still striking out 26% of the time in AA)...a guy that is pretty much exactly what the MLBTR guy says Garcia can maybe fetch.

Nothing you just stated contradicts anything I posted earlier.

Ok, but you didn't really contradict me either.

 

[Enscheff]

yeah, Dario K wagon was the catch of that deal and he was the biggest flop of the bunch. I think we will have to pair a BP guy with Jamie. Maybe an attractive offer to the gNats. they could use starter depth and BP help and then slot Jamie or another starter in the pen for the playoffs.

Garcia's value will be maximized to a contender that meets the following criteria:

1. They have (or will have) a solid Top 3 for a playoff rotation...otherwise they will try to get Darvish, Cueto, Archer, Quintana or another TOR guy
2. They have a hole in the back of their rotation...that's where Garcia fits on a true contender
3. They need to be in a close race....otherwise they don't need a back-end starter to reach the playoffs

Teams that don't meet all 3 points won't need Garcia, and will be looking for other options.

The Cubs spring to mind quickly as a possibility.

 

[JxnMissFan]

Now THAT'S the kind of thinking we need around here. A package of mediocre pieces getting a decent return is realistic. Just need a team to line up.

Contrary to your narrative of the Braves being the dumbest front office in baseball the other 29 teams often make decisions that may not be the best long term strategy in order to win now. Every time you see a contender put a starter on the DL that ups the chances of the Braves making a deal

 

[Super]

no, i'm never against trading someone if the trade is in our favor

but the push to just trade everyone all the time is absurd

and i don't think Julio is declining in abilities etc

I'm not eager to trade him by any means. Just a possibility if he gets hot.
I also don't think he's declining.

 

[Southcack77]

Garcia's value will be maximized to a contender that meets the following criteria:

1. They have (or will have) a solid Top 3 for a playoff rotation...otherwise they will try to get Darvish, Cueto, Archer, Quintana or another TOR guy
2. They have a hole in the back of their rotation...that's where Garcia fits on a true contender
3. They need to be in a close race....otherwise they don't need a back-end starter to reach the playoffs

Teams that don't meet all 3 points won't need Garcia, and will be looking for other options.

The Cubs spring to mind quickly as a possibility.

1. This just isn't necessarily true. Even if true there is difference in going for and getting.
2. This is a possibility, sure.
3. With the wild card all playoff nearly all races are close.

 

[Enscheff]

Ok, but you didn't really contradict me either.

I didn't have to contradict you. Your point was not counter to the point you quoted. Allow me to break it down:

I stated: Garcia will not get a Top 100 guy as return.

You said in response: Harrell got TD as return.

Your response did not contradict my point in any way.

First, Harrell did not get TD...Harrell plus Alvarez got TD.

Second, TD was not a Top 100 guy.

I'm not sure how this discussion is going, logically speaking, in your head...but it's not making sense to me.

 

[Enscheff]

1. This just isn't necessarily true. Even if true there is difference in going for and getting.
2. This is a possibility, sure.
3. With the wild card all playoff nearly all races are close.

LOL, huh?

Logic...or not haha.

 

[bravesfanMatt]

I didn't have to contradict you. Your point was not counter to the point you quoted. Allow me to break it down:

I stated: Garcia will not get a Top 100 guy as return.

You said in response: Harrell got TD as return.

Your response did not contradict my point in any way.

First, Harrell did not get TD...Harrell plus Alvarez got TD.

Second, TD was not a Top 100 guy.

I'm not sure how this discussion is going, logically speaking, in your head...but it's not making sense to me.

 

[Deester11]

The time to trade Teheran was 2 years ago during the rebuild when his value was high and the Braves had no hope of winning in the foreseeable future.

Now that the rebuild is over and his value is much lower it's time to keep him.

Anyone that "knows baseball" knows this!

That's baseball sense. Other than the fact I like julio,it's sunk cost to continue the argument to trade him. If he regains value, it's a meaningful debate. Otherwise can we get back to trading Albies?

 

[Enscheff]

That's baseball sense. Other than the fact I like julio,it's sunk cost to continue the argument to trade him. If he regains value, it's a meaningful debate. Otherwise can we get back to trading Albies?

It's just odd that when it was suggested to sell high on Julio we were burned at the stake. Now that he is struggling, everyone wants to sell low on him.

Buy high, sell low. The derpi-Barves way!

 

[Southcack77]

I didn't have to contradict you. Your point was not counter to the point you quoted. Allow me to break it down:

I stated: Garcia will not get a Top 100 guy as return.

You said in response: Harrell got TD as return.

Your response did not contradict my point in any way.

First, Harrell did not get TD...Harrell plus Alvarez got TD.

Second, TD was not a Top 100 guy.

I'm not sure how this discussion is going, logically speaking, in your head...but it's not making sense to me.

Well, you said that no team would want him in the playoff rotation. I said that was not necessarily the case.

I didn't feel like mentioning that, because honestly I have no idea what the importance of my not having contradicted you would even hypothetically be.

I didn't say Demeritte was a top 100 prospect. I said he was "an actual prospect." I've never said Garcia will fetch a top 100 prospect. It's possible I suppose. Nor did I ever say that Garcia would be the only piece of any deal he's involved with.

Like for instance if the Braves packaged Garcia with a reliever since you feel like you've chastised me for pointing out that the Braves traded ****ty reliever with Harrell for Demeritte.

I feel like we've wasted enough time on that little detour.

......

Truth is you can predict that no team will trade for Garcia to put in their playoff rotation, but you surely cannot say it for sure. Taking a look at the likely trade targets do you see someone performing now like someone you'd want to give up the farm for?

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/galler...olquez-starting-pitchers-ken-rosenthal-061517

There are a lot of teams in the wild card race, some of them didn't expect to be there, and some of them can really use the goodwill of being in the race without the high cost of pretending like they are going to win the world series. Some of them have different ways of valuing assets and are in different places.

Who knows what dumb **** a contender is going to do?

I think you have the baseline assumption that everyone is stupid or something and thinks that Garcia is going to bring back Yuan Moncada. No one is saying anything like that. No one says most of the **** you rant about.

 

[Orphan Black]

Everyone should just put Encheff on their ignore list. He's not a Braves' fan, and maybe he'll just stop posting.