jsebe10
Well-known member
He hasn't been bad at all at SS. He's committed one error out of 67 chances and has only two errors on the season.
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He hasn't been bad at all at SS. He's committed one error out of 67 chances and has only two errors on the season.
GeorgiaGirl
NL Rookie of the Year
You can't evaluate defense by errors.
If he qualified, he'd have the worst UZR/150 in baseball at SS and he's particularly bad going to his left on plays.
He has sure hands and a strong arm but his range is not that good.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Or at a minimum keep an open mind on the optimal playing time distribution and positions of Albies, Swanson and Camargo. I am probably a bit higher on Camargo than you. But I think it is nuts to make the call (now or this off-season) that he is our guy. That kind of call requires at least half of the 2018 season with significant major league playing time going to all three. What is the rush to make the call.
This FO certainly does seem a bit clueless when evaluating position players. They are so desperate to win NOW that they are making insanely short sighted decisions.
Adams was the answer at 1B due to a hot month fueled by an inflated HR/FB rate, so they were willing to move Freeman to 3b.
Camargo puts up a decent OPS for a couple weeks due to an unsustainable BABIP, and they are willing to completely alter course on the middle infield plans that involved 2 Top 10 prospects.
All this after they already had to "see what they had" in Adonis for 2+ seasons, decided to stick Kemp in LF for 3+ years, and somehow missed the fact that Olivera couldnt even play 3b.
I've been saying it for months, but the actions of this FO are not consistent with a group that can build a contending roster in the modern game.
Their recent attempts to reduce payroll and their desperation to win now are almost certainly related. Most likely they sold a product to upper management that involved winning in 2017 and generating much higher revenues in the new park than they currently are. They had to get permission to add Adams and his tiny salary, which is another good indication the financial aspect of the operation isn't going as well as planned.
Adams was the answer at 1B due to a hot month fueled by an inflated HR/FB rate, so they were willing to move Freeman to 3b.
Camargo puts up a decent OPS for a couple weeks due to an unsustainable BABIP, and they are willing to completely alter course on the middle infield plans that involved 2 Top 10 prospects.
All this after they already had to "see what they had" in Adonis for 2+ seasons, decided to stick Kemp in LF for 3+ years, and somehow missed the fact that Olivera couldnt even play 3b.
I've been saying it for months, but the actions of this FO are not consistent with a group that can build a contending roster in the modern game.
Their recent attempts to reduce payroll and their desperation to win now are almost certainly related. Most likely they sold a product to upper management that involved winning in 2017 and generating much higher revenues in the new park than they currently are. They had to get permission to add Adams and his tiny salary, which is another good indication the financial aspect of the operation isn't going as well as planned.
Deester11
Well-known member
I like that nsacpi...it is what I call planning. I'm tired of this over cute crap. Let them play. You decided Albies was your 2B when you made the position change. I'm telling Albies was a good SS. I've watched them both. That being said, stop being cute and let your future unfold. I'd rather lose knowing they are or aren't the future than playing candy damn crush and guessing!
Southcack77
Well-known member
If you looked at a baseball team as something on which you earned playing time rather than something on which a player is simply entitled to a spot regardless of performance then the handling of the situation makes sense.
I swear some folks act like these prospects have earned something and fact remains they are prospects and the braves should absolutely explore all the possibilities when it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
Deester11
Well-known member
Simply a bad post. Who said anybody should be given anything? But you think it makes sense to have a good prospect in Albies and your once future SS playing the same position? It signals one may be gone or your winging it. I guarantee I've seen more of both than you have.
I don't disgaree here. We live in a time where people want things handed to them and adults are still mentally children because they never face adversity. If Danbsy wants to be the starting SS for the Atlanta Braves he'll go out there and get it. If not, then he won't. That's the way it is in business and the real world. Baseball shouldn't be any different. FWIW I think he will.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I don't think any of us are saying hand short and second to Swanson and Albies on a silver platter. I like having Camargo push them for playing time. I think Camargo might be in the process of making the case that he should be a regular. But I think there needs to be an understanding of what has driven his success so far and what that implies for his future success. As well as an understanding of what kind of appropriate sample size is needed to upgrade one's assessment of Camargo relative to the others is a really meaningful way. And I say that as someone who thinks there is a significant chance Camargo turns out to be better than Swanson.
The simple solution is Camargo to 3rd. Everyone is happy.
I feel something stupid is around the corner in the offseason. They seem determined to rush the rebuild and contend next year.
I would much rather them pay to rush the rebuild like getting someone like Verlander. I am pretty scared they are going to do a Fulmer type deal. You can count on Ozzie and many other guys we really like gone.
I think they feel having Camargo gives them versatility to make any move they want going forward. I know many aren't big on Camargo over Dansby and Ozzie, but he has earned it. I would like to see his performance over another year, but they seem to be convinced.
I feel something stupid is around the corner in the offseason. They seem determined to rush the rebuild and contend next year.
I would much rather them pay to rush the rebuild like getting someone like Verlander. I am pretty scared they are going to do a Fulmer type deal. You can count on Ozzie and many other guys we really like gone.
I think they feel having Camargo gives them versatility to make any move they want going forward. I know many aren't big on Camargo over Dansby and Ozzie, but he has earned it. I would like to see his performance over another year, but they seem to be convinced.
msstate7
Well-known member
My problem isn't Swanson at 2b. My problem is we're about to trade the best of the 3 MIFs
msstate7
Well-known member
I don't pretend to understand all these metrics... has camargo been at SS enough to make that stat valid?
Swanson at SS and Albies at 2B is the correct decision imo. Minor league defensive stats (for whatever that's worth) and scouts mainly agreed that Swanson was the better defender of the two. That said you should certainly stick with both of them and see what you have.
This. All freaking day.
If you believe Camargo might be for real, that's fine. We have an easy opportunity to give him a shot to prove that. We have no 3B for the rest of this season and perhaps none for next year, either. He also plays 3B better than he does SS. So just let him play 3B, trade Phillips for anything you can get, and have Dansby at SS and Albies at 2B.
It is that easy.
The sample size to say he's a bad SS is about the same to say he's a good hitter.
Tapate50
Well-known member
How many ABs qualify as a new normal for Camargo?
CyYoung31
Shift Leader
It really is.