The Trump Presidency

nsacpi said:
Good. I'm glad about that. I have a couple further points.

I think the "sea" of people they swim in should be viewed similarly. Atta and radical Islamists. Fields and neo-Nazis.

However, there is a further distinction that is important to draw in both cases. Neo-Nazis shouldn't be used to tar all culturally conservative people. And radical Islamists should not be used to stoke fear of Muslims. I will leave it to others to comment on whether any of our politicians engage in such activity.
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I hate to interrupt the didactic moment here, but do you really think radical Islamists (you know, the ISIS guys) and an alt-right group called "Vanguard America" are flying in the same orbit?
 
And cheers to whatever clever boy put "cherish our history" in the Predident's statement. Basically a love note to the Pepes.
 
I hate to interrupt the didactic moment here, but do you really think radical Islamists (you know, the ISIS guys) and an alt-right group called "Vanguard America" are flying in the same orbit?

In this context, does it matter?
 
Julio3000 said:
The neo-nazi terrorist who tried to commit a mass murder was acting in a manner that is 100% consistent with the agenda of the people who organized the march. They are nazis. They are white supremacists. They are racist and virulently anti-Semitic, but beyond this, they advocate the creation of a white ethno-state.

What that kid did is completely in line with that ideology
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He killed a 32-year old white woman. How does that mesh with the agenda of the people who organized the march?
 
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Hawk said:
I hate to interrupt the didactic moment here, but do you really think radical Islamists (you know, the ISIS guys) and an alt-right group called "Vanguard America" are flying in the same orbit?
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I don't think I said that. But in the exchange I had with thethe he and I agreed that there was a similarity in that both Fields and Atta were willing to kill innocents in the name of their ideology.

I don't think I said ISIS and Vanguard America are in the same orbit. But I did say that we need to view the "sea" in which Atta and Fields swim through the same lense. I think both "seas" pose serious threats to our way of life. Different kinds of threats and we can debate which one is more serious. But both are threats to our values and way of life.
 
Hawk said:
Well, you got this much right.
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Who cares where the info comes from when it's presenting facts on the guy? Are you saying that these neo-nazis are not the face of domestic terrorism in America today, that instead a media outlet is? Wow.
 
Hawk said:
He killed a 32-year old white woman. How does that mesh with the agenda of the people who organized the march?
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Fields is an individual and responsible for his own actions.

But I think it is also useful to examine the milieu from which he springs. Radical mullahs incite terrorist behavior. Maybe not directly but they contribute. Fields did not spring from a blank canvas. I suspect there is some "radical mullah" in his background who had some influence on his behavior.

Sorry if you find this pedantic.

Edit: While I'm at it let me be clear about what values I think are being threatened (and I realize not all of us here will place a similarly high value on these things). But the values I am talking about have to do with embracing (not merely tolerating) our differences. In this context, I view those who prefer purity (whether it be along racial or religious lines) as my enemies.
 
Hawk said:
He killed a 32-year old white woman. How does that mesh with the agenda of the people who organized the march?
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He killed a 32-year-old white woman because he plowed his car into a multi-racial crowd of mostly lefty socialists who were marching in protest of the racism, white supremacy and genocidal imagery of the gathering.

It's not obscure. It's pretty obvious.

I guess the white civil rights activists killed in Mississippi in the 60s weren't killed in the name of white supremacy, huh?
 
DaneHill said:
Who cares where the info comes from when it's presenting facts on the guy? Are you saying that these neo-nazis are not the face of domestic terrorism in America today, that instead a media outlet is? Wow.
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BuzzFeed, the same outfit who 'reported' (source: their CEO) on the eve of the final Presidential debate that Ivanka Trump once drunkenly joked about "mulatto cocks"?

So, yeah, I absolutely question the integrity of anything published on that site, which, by the way, is running a "Charlottesville Mayor Blames Trump's Rhetoric For White Supremacist March Violence" article right above a "19 Faces That'll Make Anyone Who's Had Bad Sex With A Dick Cringe" piece.

You are what you read.
 
Hawk said:
He killed a 32-year old white woman. How does that mesh with the agenda of the people who organized the march?
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He ran into a throng of people, hitting several blacks, probably his targets. The white woman was too slow or unlucky.
 
Hawk said:
BuzzFeed, the same outfit who 'reported' (source: their CEO) on the eve of the final Presidential debate that Ivanka Trump once drunkenly joked about "mulatto cocks"?

So, yeah, I absolutely question the integrity of anything published on that site, which, by the way, is running a "Charlottesville Mayor Blames Trump's Rhetoric For White Supremacist March Violence" article right above a "19 Faces That'll Make Anyone Who's Had Bad Sex With A Dick Cringe" piece.

You are what you read.
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Great, we have a riot where an innocent is murdered and you are debating new sources !!

Tell us all what South Korean news sources reported

This is the typical diversion being referred to as "whataboutism"
 
nsacpi said:
Fields is an individual and responsible for his own actions.

But I think it is also useful to examine the milieu from which he springs. Radical mullahs incite terrorist behavior. Maybe not directly but they contribute. Fields did not spring from a blank canvas. I suspect there is some "radical mullah" in his background who had some influence on his behavior.

Sorry if you find this pedantic.

Edit: While I'm at it let me be clear about what values I think are being threatened (and I realize not all of us here will place a similarly high value on these things). But the values I am talking about have to do with embracing (not merely tolerating) our differences. In this context, I view those who prefer purity (whether it be along racial or religious lines) as my enemies.
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Hey, as you know, I'm all about pedantry. That's precisely why I think it's premature to speculate about ideology in relation to Fields. We don't know enough yet, aside from his Mom saying she thought he was attending an "Albright" meeting. I mean, is he a neo-Nazi or a white supremacist or a nationalist or a white nationalist (who he marched with - but they claim they don't know him) or an alt-righter or a far-righter or a Bircher or a Klansman or a Militiaman? Or was he just a white boy who likes Robert E. Lee that got scared and angry (perhaps because somebody in that crowd threw a bag of faeces on him)? As you know, each of the radical groups I mentioned operate by their own unique set of principles and ideals. They are not all dogmatically intertwined.

Although some of these groups may treat their political belief systems as seriously as a religion, they are not actors because of their religion. This is where I feel like the comparison you make misses the mark.
 
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